David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

[David Votoupal]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

Angela Merkel said it last year, now David Cameron has said it. Imagine the outrage if any of our political leaders dared say such a thing. My views on the topic are well known, but no need to go further than that. Given that the US and Europe are experiencing growing tensions, honest debate is required.

[sevengoals]

Scheisse!

They're talking out of their conservative arses!

[blahblah]

David may have a point, the plight of Aborigines has been dire since the arrival of non-indigenous Australians. Perhaps we should all pack up and leave. Where are you going David?

[shinAUFC]

I can only speak about australia, as its my home.

I dont understand why immagrants are shuffled out into suburbs that match their ethnicity.

Back in the old days you had your greek, english, german and italian suburbs. It creates an us and them situation.

Going to sydney and its very clear when you go from one suburb to another, amlmost like being in another country. I really hate this and does nothing but divide people even more.

Its also interesting that in 30 years its predicted anglo australia will be the minority, how do people feel about that?

Is it ok to be multi cultural as long as white australia is the majority? or do people truly believe in multiculturalism

[Agostinho]

I dont understand why immagrants are shuffled out into suburbs that match their ethnicity.

What do you mean "shuffled out"? Do migrants not get to choose where they live? My immigrant parents moved to the suburb where people they knew others who had moved from the same region as them. Can hardly blame people from doing such - surely you'd want to be around people who speak the same language, where you can get the same foods, where your particular place of worship is situated etc.

Its also interesting that in 30 years its predicted anglo australia will be the minority, how do people feel about that?

I hope I never become so xenophobic that this would be an issue for me. Australia is no longer Britons transported to the antipodes.

Is it ok to be multi cultural as long as white australia is the majority? or do people truly believe in multiculturalism

The latter for me.

[Nash]

very interested to see where this thread leads. i'm not educated enough in the history and policies around the World to get involved in it, but i am extremely pro-multiculturalism. although i am realistic enough to know that we are a long way from racial harmony the World over, including Australia.

many people are driven by fear, the fear of change and fear of something different. therefore racism will always be around to some extend with those that are not empathetic enough to understand why those from war torn countries or economically disadvantaged countries would want to move to Australia, or other refugee 'embracing' nations. i cement my fear factor view with the fact that over the years, during each decade, it was one group of people or another 'destroying' or 'taking over' our country. if it wasn't the Greeks and the Italians, it was the Vietnamese and Cambodians, or the Africans or the Middle Eastern Muslims... etc etc etc. even the Chinese were 'taking over' during the Gold Rush.

and people who hold the arguments such as 'learn English before you come here', 'they just stick to themselves', 'come the right way if you want to come at all', 'if they don't have ID they must be terrorists' etc etc, surely can not fathom what it would be like to flee your country of birth, the place where you belong, the culture you understand and fit within. not to mention the family and friends you leave behind, and possibly never know what happens to them ever again. most people are fleeing due to sheer terror of threat to their lives, and their children's.

(and please no one take direct insult in this thread, let's try and keep this an honest and non-targeting discussion. we all have different views, different levels of understanding of the topic, and different up bringings/values. this thread has potential for some great discussions)

[shinAUFC]

As far as im aware when certain migrants ( this may apply more so for newly accepted asylum seekers) enter the community as new citizens they are given people from their native culture who live in the community as a support network which is great. but i do think having to many new migrants in a certain area encourages them to cling to their old country and not embrace the new community... not that there is a law against it or they should be forced to as this is a free country.

but i do think it creates an us and them attitude among some.

This really is a touchy subject to give ones opinion without offending a small section of a community.

Also my comments about anglo australia becoming a minority was more of a question, as i think alot of people think they are all for multiculturalism but if you put it to them like that they rethink it.

From what i have seen of news reports on his speech, i cant disagree that minority groups have a very lose leash where others may not for fear of being branded a racist, i must admit these type of situations fall my way almost daily.


The only thing that bothers me about multicultural country around the world is that in the end they typically get branded as rascists. Australia, UK, USA etc etc. Obviously its a bit of a generalisation but due to very very small minorities on both sides mud sticks.

I do believe it to be true though that regardless of colour of your skin or who your god is or even if you have one, that every rule of the land applies to everyone, no grey area. but lets be honest this is imposible to do!

At the end of the day i believe multiculturalism is a must atleast for a place that i want to call home, however there are always some that will exploit grey areas that it creates which is where the trouble starts

[David Votoupal]

At the very least I support the idea that 1) every country has the right to protect its heritage and national identity and 2) every ethnic group seeking self-determination within its own homeland should have it.

[davidbloop]

i dunno what id call myself


im all for people of all walks of life living here, i just don't want Australia's own culture to suffer because of it.

So... who knows.

[shinAUFC]

i dunno what id call myself


im all for people of all walks of life living here, i just don't want Australia's own culture to suffer because of it.

So... who knows.

I think im similar,

But where exactly does one draw the line i think thats the real issue

[Nash]

not mention how difficult it is to define, especially in black and white, what the Australian culture truly is. we're too young a country, in my opinion, to say we have a cemented identity.

[General Ashnak]

My biggest issue with mutliculturism (which I am for in general) is the bending of certain issues to 'foster harmony'. My primary issue is around the rule of law in Australia. I personally have a massive problem with their being different ways of viewing the law depending on the cultural heritage of a person.

I dislike the fact that we have some differences in the way the law treats Aboriginal Australians. I dislike the way we are starting to see a bending in our laws with regard to Sharia law (which I have an issue with in general as it is not Islamic law but the reinterpretation Saudi tribal customs through Islamic teachings - which is a gross misrepresentation of Sharia law on my behalf but a useful lie that is part of the truth; in a similar fashion to saying the sky is blue when it actually isn't, as the blue colour is a result of the way that molecules in the atmosphere bend light). I dislike how we are seeing a move towards the fundamentalism that leads to the repression of religious freedoms in a similar fashion to the repression that France has gone through.

In short I dislike being asked to make the environment I live in subservient to the one that an immigrant came from - however I want the environment I live in to evolve with the input of those same immigrants.

To mildly sidetrack this topic I also have the following issue:

As part of this dislike I have is the undesirable swing towards political polarisation which we have been seeing that has its basis in our 2 party prefered political system. When you need to attract the preferences of specialist interest groups in order to achieve a winning margin in a seat the views of the individual politician has less relevance than the broader ‘populist’ campaign being run by the party you are part of. This has resulted in the politics of our day being less and less a result of a synthesis of views about the best and most effective way to lead the country, and more and more a result of what will cause our party being seen in a favorable light and our opposition in an unfavorable light.

Appologies for how poorly constrcuted this is.

[Agostinho]

Also my comments about anglo australia becoming a minority was more of a question, as i think alot of people think they are all for multiculturalism but if you put it to them like that they rethink it.

I apologise Shin - when I wrote that answer about xenophobia, it wasn't my intention to imply that you were.

Appologies for how poorly constrcuted this is.

On the contrary GA, it was far from poorly constructed.



From my point of view, it just seems that all of a sudden we're all worried about losing our identity as a nation, when really a huge part of our identity is that we are multicultural in the first place. As I said before, we're no longer Britain on the otherside of the world and we haven't been for decades.

The vibe around multiculturalism seems to have changed dramatically in the last 10 years - pretty much since 9/11 (and I don't think it's a coincidence). But we've been accepting migrants for years and years - whether they be Greek or Italian or British or German or Chinese etc... And no one seemed to batter an eyelid (except for the odd 'No Jap City' or 'Asians out' rhetoric). But since the demographic has changed, there seems to be a much greater 'fear' of multiculturalism.

I dunno, maybe I just remember things differently.



Does anyone remember that TV commercial years ago where the family is having a BBQ (or something) and one of the kids brings over a friend who is Asian - and the mum asks what part of China (or Japan or wherever, I can't remember) and the girl says 'Ballarat, actually'.

To me, this sums up our culture. And it's a much more appealing culture (to me) than the ocker stereotype of thongs and BBQs etc.

Kind of on the same topic, I read something last night about Julian Assange, from an Icelandic MP named Birgitta Jonsdottir:

"it is important to bear in mind the culture Assange comes from. He’s a classic Aussie in the sense that he’s a bit of a male chauvinist.”

Seriously, I resent that this is how we're viewed. IMO we're a much more progressive country than that, but in reality from the outside in we're viewed as uncultured, sexist, racist bogans.

[shinAUFC]

some really good conversation in this thread hats off to everyone as this kind of thread generally get derailed and locked due to immature posts.

The thing that i struggle with most, which i come across daily in my line of work is....

If you have someone who may be rude and abusive , or not willing to pay for a service they have requested you would generally wash your hands of this person and give them no service.

But what if that person verbally and visually does not come from this land, do you wash your hands of them as you would anyone else? If you do your likely to be called a racist or something along those lines.

But this is what i struggle with, suppose i do give them a service when i wouldnt normally give simply for the reason stated, doesnt that make your actions racist? As i would be affording them far more time and energy then i would everyone else ?...

OR suppose i call my little niece or nephew a monkey because they are cheeky, this is not a racist thing to do, but suppose they has a thai friend and i also called them that name many would call me racist, yet if you chose to call them comething else simply because of their skin .... then isnt that a rascist act also.

The political correctness of all this drives me crazy, Ive had coloured friends who have nicknames like "Blacky" not becuase of their skin but for their last names , yet do gooders will tell this guy you shouldnt intro yourself as that name its not right.... its his friken name if he wants it to be!! ...

ahh i have gone off track but anyways ...

[General Ashnak]

I understand what you mean Agistinho, part of that was due to the innocence that still pervaded our national phsyche. The events that occured on the 11th of September we amazingly confronting - I watched them as they occured live within 10 minutes of the images being broadcast around the globe thanks to the shifts I was working and a mate who was an insomniac who called me as i was on my way home. I think they damaged us as a society in ways that are hard to comprehend, we are struggling with them and it will take us time to recover.

I think that some parts of our society have used blind and misguided patriotism to patch over the results of those events and everything that dominoed on from them, especially the weakness it exposed in the last of the old world superpowers and the Western alliance.

Conversley it has also resulted in some parts of our society to offer to be walked over in an effort to avoid a similar incident occuring here, in a misguided believe that their spinelessness is actually passivism.

I am hopeful that over time we will see the two extremes of patriotic agreesiveness and spineless apologism give way to true passivism through positive assertiveness which can be used to facilitate a true synergy of the exisitng cultures withing Australia and those that seek to gain entry into our country for the benefit of all of us.

A utopian desire I know, but what is live without dreams!