David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Old Gregg Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:38 am

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/julia- ... 6007814780

A fair view here. What I fear are the inevitable witchhunts that will follow in the implementation of new policy.
Piers Akerman's can never be called a 'fair view'. He's a shock jock who's entire modus operandi is to sling mud at Labor and the Left. Which is fine, it's his prerogative, but let's look at some of the things he says in that article:
It is Labor... who want Australians to pay migrants to maintain their customs and traditions when they come to this nation.
Talk about a witchhunt. What exactly will I have to 'pay' to ensure that migrants can do whatever they please in this country??
Labor comprehensively has lost the debate on border protection and multiculturalism.
If that's the case, why is the country still debating? It's an issue that has no easy resolution and it's certainly not helpful to suggest that one side has blown the other out of the water with cool-headed, rational arguments.
Labor has not only noisily revisited the dismal and divisive multicultural policy, it has resuscitated the moribund multicultural council and promised to establish a national anti-racism strategy.

It doing so, it is sending the signal that the ALP believes Australians are racist and newcomers need government protection.

That we are the problem, not those who refuse to learn English and render themselves unemployable, those who cling to tribal culture, those who reject Western culture and values.
This last paragraph is ridiculously simplistic - I have no doubts that just like every previous wave of immigration to Australia the newly-arrived African and Muslim migrants will eventually integrate as productive citizens of this country. Various European and Asian groups have done in the past - while you'll see plenty of old European migrants who can't speak English, etc, their children and grandchildren are undoubtedly 'Australian'.

His whole argument is based around the fact that governments in Europe are rethinking their strategies around multiculturalism - and therefore Australia should step in line (rather than 'swim against the tide') and turn to the Right. There's a lot of emotive language around the issue but if you actually look at what Chris Bowen said, he's hardly proposing a social overhaul:
The minister said the debates in Britain and Germany were "of limited value" for Australia, which respected different cultures, but afforded ultimate primacy to Australian values.

"If there is any inconsistency between these cultural values and the values of individual freedom and the rule of law, then these traditional Australian values win out," Mr Bowen told an audience at conservative think tank The Sydney Institute last night.

He said Australian multiculturalism had as its premise the idea of full citizenship.

"We are not a guest-worker society," he said. "Rather, people who share respect for our democratic beliefs, laws and rights are welcome to join us as full partners with equal rights."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6007226044

That strikes me as pretty fair, to be honest
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby blahblah Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:41 am

Tell me, who built this country, its economy, its institutions, its quality of life? Why is it that people are actually attracted to this and not countless other countries? Come on, be honest here. Same problems in the UK.
People go to the UK because of the Germans? In South Australia much of the economy, indeed Australia's wine industry, came from Teutonic as opposed to Anglo-Saxon sources. Same with much of agriculture in SA. The four biggest festivals in SA (at least when I was there) were the Adelaide Show, Oktoberfest, Glendi and the Big Day Out.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Old Gregg Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:49 am

Tell me, who built this country, its economy, its institutions, its quality of life?
Immigrants. From the English, Irish and Scottish early settlers, Chinese attracted to the gold rushes, to the Germans, the post-war southern and eastern Europeans (Greeks, Italians, Croatians, Serbs, Poles, Turks, etc), to the Vietnamese & Lebanese that fled wars in their homelands, to the Iraqis, Afghanis, Sudanese, Indians, Pakistanis that make up the current wave of new migrants. These recent migrants, you may have noticed, are now filling all the jobs that European migrants did, postwar: cleaners, fruitpickers, labourers, taxi drivers - and, like their earlier counterparts, their families will eventually be able to 'move up in the world' and become members of the middle classes, earning more money to pay more taxes and contribute further to Australia's economy.
Why is it that people are actually attracted to this and not countless other countries? Come on, be honest here. Same problems in the UK.
Money, opportunities, lifestyle, freedom. What's wrong with wanting to be a part of that?
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Old Gregg Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:52 am

The four biggest festivals in SA (at least when I was there) were the Adelaide Show, Oktoberfest, Glendi and the Big Day Out.
Schutzenfest (German) & Carnevale (Italian) as well... And Tunarama :D
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby David Votoupal Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:11 pm

Tell me, who built this country, its economy, its institutions, its quality of life? Why is it that people are actually attracted to this and not countless other countries? Come on, be honest here. Same problems in the UK.
People go to the UK because of the Germans? In South Australia much of the economy, indeed Australia's wine industry, came from Teutonic as opposed to Anglo-Saxon sources. Same with much of agriculture in SA. The four biggest festivals in SA (at least when I was there) were the Adelaide Show, Oktoberfest, Glendi and the Big Day Out.
You've just proven my point. The Germans and Japanese, and to a degree Europe and Asia in general, have provided much of the impetus for technological advances in our time. Culturally I like to identify myself as being "European" in terms of heritage, tradition and soul.

Go and see beautiful buildings, art, beautiful music (Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Wagner)- that is the cultural soul we cherish.

Same when you drive a Mercedes-Benz, BMW or Lexus. This is the unique soul we are talking about.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Old Gregg Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:22 pm

Tell me, who built this country, its economy, its institutions, its quality of life? Why is it that people are actually attracted to this and not countless other countries? Come on, be honest here. Same problems in the UK.
People go to the UK because of the Germans? In South Australia much of the economy, indeed Australia's wine industry, came from Teutonic as opposed to Anglo-Saxon sources. Same with much of agriculture in SA. The four biggest festivals in SA (at least when I was there) were the Adelaide Show, Oktoberfest, Glendi and the Big Day Out.
You've just proven my point. The Germans and Japanese, and to a degree Europe and Asia in general, have provided much of the impetus for technological advances in our time. Culturally I like to identify myself as being "European" in terms of heritage, tradition and soul.

Go and see beautiful buildings, art, beautiful music (Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Wagner)- that is the cultural soul we cherish.
I could point out that a lot of beautiful architecture, art, music, food, etc is non-European in origin - as are some hugely important scientific and philosophical contributions - but I don't know if it would make a difference. Just because you see yourself as 'European' shouldn't mean that you have to disregard everything that falls outside Western Christendom.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby David Votoupal Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:24 pm

I could point out that a lot of beautiful architecture, art, music, food, etc is non-European in origin - as are some hugely important scientific and philosophical contributions - but I don't know if it would make a difference. Just because you see yourself as 'European' shouldn't mean that you have to disregard everything that falls outside Western Christendom.
Ummm... I'm quite fond of Japan, Korea and China generally. And of India too.

And my stomach contents and food cupboards bear witness to that too.

Or do you think I'm on dangerous lines by extolling German and Japanese virtues? I might have my own ethnic (European and especially Czech) and religious (Catholic) bias, but hey at least I'm open and genuine.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Old Gregg Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:33 pm

So how do you propose being able to get your hands on interesting ethnic food (like the pupusas and khachapuri mentioned in the other thread) if migration is to be curtailed and cultural assimilation enforced?

Or is it OK to allow migrants to continue to practice the elements of their original culture that we find attractive and appealing (like food, clothes, music) while preventing them from practicing those elements of culture that we find threatening to the Australian 'way of life' (language, religion, associating with ethnic social and sports clubs, living among others from a similar cultural background, etc)?
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby David Votoupal Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:35 pm

Ummm I'm all for people learning foreign languages and for people preserving regional minority languages (especially those that are endangered). Education systems can help towards that aim.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby David Votoupal Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:36 pm

That's because I've NEVER been given an apology from the culprits who've been against me from the start. Until Jamie and the other wind-up merchants do I will not let go.
Don't worry about him, that guy's a right dick, he never leaves me alone, I'm sure I once saw him kick a Squirrel for refusing to share his nuts with the rest of the Squirrel commune, the baby eating Communist.
Jamie I know who you are, so don't try to hide. You even tried to hassle me once elsewhere.

Don't let me read out my hate list here.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Mr. Happy Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:16 pm

Excuse me? I've no idea what you're implying but for comparison's sake:

Jamie:
Image

Me:
Image
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby David Votoupal Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:20 pm

I'm not so stupid that I can't look through disguises.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby Mr. Happy Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:29 pm

Image

I've no idea what you mean.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby David Votoupal Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:45 pm

Image

I've no idea what you mean.
Again you're in denial.
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Re: David Cameron: "Multiculturalism has failed"

Postby blahblah Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:48 pm

enough

This thread had the option of intellectual discussion however seems to have become derailed somewhat.

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