The Election - 2019

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The Election - 2019

Postby sevengoals Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:52 am





All clear here.


B)
" in football, everything is complicated by the presence of an opponent "
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby mcjules Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:45 pm

That honest government series is great. Nails it almost every time.
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby sevengoals Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:40 pm

That honest government series is great. Nails it almost every time.

I just discovered them a couple of days ago and I'm loving their output.

B)
" in football, everything is complicated by the presence of an opponent "
- Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre

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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby sevengoals Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:28 am





B)
" in football, everything is complicated by the presence of an opponent "
- Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre

Pies: 3867

No Roots, No Growth!
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby sevengoals Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:31 am




B)
" in football, everything is complicated by the presence of an opponent "
- Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre

Pies: 3867

No Roots, No Growth!
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby blahblah Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:03 am

If you are socially liberal but lean towards the free market then there is a real need to study both the policies and the influence of fringe actors on the major parties.
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby sevengoals Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:27 pm

And let's not ignore the huge and influential lobby groups spreading the moolah around.


By the way, I don't believe the "free market" is really free.
It is and can be manipulated, stimulated, regulated, etc.,etc..
Adam's invisible hand has long had strings attached and if you can control them you cash in big time.



All the way with John Maynard Keynes!

B)
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- Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre

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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby blahblah Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:03 pm

By the way, I don't believe the "free market" is really free.

Correct; any market must be regulated.

I more meant that the more individuals motivated to find solutions, the better those solutions become. One problem is the ability of companies and individuals to avoid costs which are then picked up by the public sector. Pollution is a prime example.

The better we can attrribute all costs to their source the better the solutions will be. The Public Sector needs to play a role yet the private sector must be incentivised to devise solutions - this where effective regulation matters.
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby shinAUFC Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:20 pm

If you are socially liberal but lean towards the free market then there is a real need to study both the policies and the influence of fringe actors on the major parties.
Aint that the truth!

Those who fall within the bracket of whats typically considered a “classic liberal” ( not to be confused with the liberal party ) have an existential crisis probably more so than usual as to which side of the coin they will go.

Where i think many classic liberals may have nudged to they left this time around as a protest to any possible link with the the fringe right its suddenly not so clear. As there is quite alot of fringe left conversations seeping its way into the mainstream which for alot of people is equally concerning as the right.

I think we will see a very diverse senate this time around with alot of surprises. As it currently stands the senate is the only way you can really make your nuanced oppinion heard
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby shinAUFC Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:28 pm

By the way, I don't believe the "free market" is really free.

Correct; any market must be regulated.

I more meant that the more individuals motivated to find solutions, the better those solutions become. One problem is the ability of companies and individuals to avoid costs which are then picked up by the public sector. Pollution is a prime example.

The better we can attrribute all costs to their source the better the solutions will be. The Public Sector needs to play a role yet the private sector must be incentivised to devise solutions - this where effective regulation matters.
I think similar example is big pharma have all the incentives in the world to produce and develop new drugs for things like restless leg syndrome or for a common cold.

A proactive company looking to tackle the issues antibiotic resistant super bugs or rare illnesses face the likelyhood of bankruptcy.

There always needs to be a level of control but to what extent i think will cause disagreements forever

/edit

Just realised the threads locked, did i miss something?
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby mcjules Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:25 pm


New one :)
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby mcjules Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:35 pm

As there is quite alot of fringe left conversations seeping its way into the mainstream which for alot of people is equally concerning as the right.
Are you referring to a few more references towards neo-liberalism failing? I don't really feel there is a lot of anti-free market rhetoric flowing around apart from that. Heck we even had a royal commission into the financial services sector and I don't remember even seeing a suggestion from any credible candidates to re-nationalise the banking system which would a reasonably left-wing economic policy.

Don't get me wrong, Labor are definitely going with a more traditional centre-left strategy in this election than they have for a long time. I find that refreshing personally but I can see why it'd be a turn off for some progressive centre-right economic types that feel abandoned by the current Liberal party.
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby sevengoals Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:26 am

First Dog on the Moon is warning us ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -you-ready



B)
" in football, everything is complicated by the presence of an opponent "
- Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre

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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby shinAUFC Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:10 am

Are you referring to a few more references towards neo-liberalism failing? I don't really feel there is a lot of anti-free market rhetoric flowing around apart from that. Heck we even had a royal commission into the financial services sector and I don't remember even seeing a suggestion from any credible candidates to re-nationalise the banking system which would a reasonably left-wing economic policy.

I meant more far left social / cultural conversations being normalised rather than far left economic policy. Things like equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity, quotas vs competency, facts vs feelings. Its not something that we will see the major parties campaign on but there is a growing fracture between the centre left and far left (socially) in the western world. It won't be a key issue this election but there are things bubbling beneath the surface that I think its relevant enough to mention.
Don't get me wrong, Labor are definitely going with a more traditional centre-left strategy in this election than they have for a long time. I find that refreshing personally but I can see why it'd be a turn off for some progressive centre-right economic types that feel abandoned by the current Liberal party.]
I totally agree, a clearer diversity of ideas among our major parties is refreshing. Where they may lose votes from progressive free market voters they may also take votes away from the greens so it will be very interesting.

Im interested to see how Shortens franking credit proposal holds up to scrutiny and if it will get watered down. A self funded retiree who would have expected a $60K income would have that reduced to $42K at the stroke of a pen ( if investments were fully franked ). As i understand it there would not even be a tax free threshold they could claim which in my mind is a brutal sudden change of direction ( though I'm not against self funded retirees paying tax). This cuts quite close to the bone for me personally, for most of my adult life I have been gearing myself towards one day being self funded. Despite having expected invetiable reforms in the future the radical (proposed) change of direction has caught me off guard.

Im also interested in the major parties approach to the US and China, how do we keep them both happy and how are we going to keep China out of our politics, it will not surprise me if the Liberal party are still sitting on infomation from the Dastyari saga that could be be damaging to Shorten.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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mcjules
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Re: The Election - 2019

Postby mcjules Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:45 pm

Are you referring to a few more references towards neo-liberalism failing? I don't really feel there is a lot of anti-free market rhetoric flowing around apart from that. Heck we even had a royal commission into the financial services sector and I don't remember even seeing a suggestion from any credible candidates to re-nationalise the banking system which would a reasonably left-wing economic policy.

I meant more far left social / cultural conversations being normalised rather than far left economic policy. Things like equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity, quotas vs competency, facts vs feelings. Its not something that we will see the major parties campaign on but there is a growing fracture between the centre left and far left (socially) in the western world. It won't be a key issue this election but there are things bubbling beneath the surface that I think its relevant enough to mention.
Don't get me wrong, Labor are definitely going with a more traditional centre-left strategy in this election than they have for a long time. I find that refreshing personally but I can see why it'd be a turn off for some progressive centre-right economic types that feel abandoned by the current Liberal party.]
I totally agree, a clearer diversity of ideas among our major parties is refreshing. Where they may lose votes from progressive free market voters they may also take votes away from the greens so it will be very interesting.

Im interested to see how Shortens franking credit proposal holds up to scrutiny and if it will get watered down. A self funded retiree who would have expected a $60K income would have that reduced to $42K at the stroke of a pen ( if investments were fully franked ). As i understand it there would not even be a tax free threshold they could claim which in my mind is a brutal sudden change of direction ( though I'm not against self funded retirees paying tax). This cuts quite close to the bone for me personally, for most of my adult life I have been gearing myself towards one day being self funded. Despite having expected invetiable reforms in the future the radical (proposed) change of direction has caught me off guard.

Im also interested in the major parties approach to the US and China, how do we keep them both happy and how are we going to keep China out of our politics, it will not surprise me if the Liberal party are still sitting on infomation from the Dastyari saga that could be be damaging to Shorten.
OK I have to pull you up on "facts vs feelings" as I think no side of politics have a monopoly on facts and they all use emotions in different ways. But I understand what you're getting at.

I guess my perspective on the franking credits proposal is that the people getting the credits aren't actually being taxed in the first place. I too am pushing a decent amount of extra money into my super to try and gear myself towards being self-funded but if those people were being honest with themselves, they're not being "self-funded" they're receiving $18k+ from the tax payer. You're right though, its a little tough on people who set their retirement up already this way and it's likely it'll get watered down to get through the senate.

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