Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby shinAUFC Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:34 pm

I think people are being a little harsh on the club in regard to having no striker.

Their hands are 100% tied until they can mutually agree with baba to end his contract ( wont happen ) or put him on the long term injury list taking him off our squad list.

In a salary capped league with only 2 marquees there is just nothing they can do until the above happens.

It does seem good news is on the horizon though.

After playing 7 games and sitting equal 3rd having most of it without a senior striker completely vindicates kurz’s methods so far imo despite not having the huge names that the other clubs from the top 5 have.

König Kurz!!
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Reds4Life Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:18 pm

I think I need to re-watch the game. So many people saying AU didn't take their chances. Besides one chance for AP around 52mins I don't recall AU having many more chances to take decent shots.
We had as many as they did yet didnt reallly look like scoring
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby otto62 Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:32 pm

Marrone hitting the cross bar looked like scoring. Stama's one-on-one with the keeper looked like scoring.

IMO we deserved to draw that match. Excellent play by our players - defensively (our press was great, not outmuscled in the tackles) and through midfield (controlling possession for a reasonable share of the game, passing game good, positioning good), attack play was good too (hit the cross bar, one-on-one, numerous corners forced) .... the only problem was not finishing our chances.

I was really proud of the players. They gave it everything. Also, Kurz showed his tactical ability once again.

Referee - should have been a pen for handball, once MV took the lead they started deliberate fouling to stop our counter attacks and the ref took too long to get his yellow out (do it the first time a cynical foul happens and they'll stop).
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby shinAUFC Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:40 pm

Kurz at time played something like a 4/2/4, IMO tactically he is probably leagues ahead of other aleague managers given what he has achieved so far.

I know the perception is he is about grit and hard work and less about tactical variations but he seems to be proving that stereotype false.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Stuckey Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:35 am

Kurz at time played something like a 4/2/4, IMO tactically he is probably leagues ahead of other aleague managers given what he has achieved so far.

I know the perception is he is about grit and hard work and less about tactical variations but he seems to be proving that stereotype false.
I agree. IMO Honda was pretty quiet throughout the game I think AU's midfield trio did a great job crowding out the centre of MV's park. That was one aspect I was nervous about with Strain coming into that area.
Disappointing part of that 4-2-4 system was that there wasn't anyone able to get the ball into dangerous areas besides Marrone and Galloway out wide who teamed up well with Strain and Goody, but weren't able to reach anyone in the area which highlights my point that AU could have Messi up front and still wouldn't score if the midfield never provide him with the ball.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Old Gregg Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:52 am

If I see or hear anyone react to that loss by saying that we need to bring back Djite, I'll personally come to their house, sit them down on their couch and make them watch the 21 consecutive games that Bruce Djite played without scoring a goal in one sitting.
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You know what sort of player could have really helped out in our front third on Saturday night ....? :mrgreen:
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Stuckey Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:56 am

I think I need to re-watch the game. So many people saying AU didn't take their chances. Besides one chance for AP around 52mins I don't recall AU having many more chances to take decent shots.
We had as many as they did yet didnt reallly look like scoring
Like when?
Really I put a decent chunk of the result down to luck.
Marrone had two good chances 1. the head off a corner which is always a low percentage lottery. 2. another corner when the ball happened to land at his feet but he took too long to get a shot away.
The other was AP's chance that he fluffed.

Compare to MV's goals. Decent cross and Toivenen does very well with a header and Izzo's save happens to fall to Barbarouses' feet. The second was an outstanding piece of skill from Antonis to create space for Toivenen, but on another day that doesn't come off and the ball falls to a defender's feet.
But then AU had their own luck with Galloway's handball not being call up as well as MV losing their best defender early on which gave AU a large advantage in the first half which is why the game was so even early on.

There is another 88 minutes in the game where AU didn't get close to finding a player in the area. I don't understand why people are focusing on the few chances they missed when 95% of the game AU weren't able to create effective attacks. That's like staying someone didn't win a marathon because they slowed down at one point to grab a drink.
We can't expect AU to win and score regularly if they aren't getting the ball in dangerous positions.

Now I'm not giving the side a hard time I'm actually very proud if their performance.
I'm just trying to highlight a marquee striker isn't magically going to win AU a championship.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Old Gregg Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:00 am

Kurz at time played something like a 4/2/4, IMO tactically he is probably leagues ahead of other aleague managers given what he has achieved so far.

I know the perception is he is about grit and hard work and less about tactical variations but he seems to be proving that stereotype false.
I agree. IMO Honda was pretty quiet throughout the game I think AU's midfield trio did a great job crowding out the centre of MV's park. That was one aspect I was nervous about with Strain coming into that area.
Disappointing part of that 4-2-4 system was that there wasn't anyone able to get the ball into dangerous areas besides Marrone and Galloway out wide who teamed up well with Strain and Goody, but weren't able to reach anyone in the area which highlights my point that AU could have Messi up front and still wouldn't score if the midfield never provide him with the ball.
Yep. Strain into the centre worked really well, Isaias was at his best at the base of midfield, but there was just nobody able to provide the sort of service that we need from the #10 position.
We looked most dangerous from corners, which is something very rare for Adelaide.
That said, we were very good in the first half. Marrone's early header goes in and it's a very different game.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby BenAD Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:25 am

A class striker doesn't just make finishing the chances, it also means creating new ones, either by drawing players, being in better positions or just creating something though. You can't just look at the chances we did have and then at that point replace AP for that striker.

Still I hope the club keep AP, I think he has a bright future as long as he gets chances.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Old Gregg Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:33 am

yeah this is always my response to the 'Bruce is shit cos he didn't score' argument BenAD. Even when he had his lean spell he was dropping deep, fighting for the ball, and involving himself in the play. He regularly took 2 or 3 defenders to contain, and even if he didn't score many himself he made life a whole lot easier for those around him.
This is exactly the sort of player that Stamatelopoulos can be I reckon, he has all the attributes.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Stuckey Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:47 am

yeah this is always my response to the 'Bruce is shit cos he didn't score' argument BenAD. Even when he had his lean spell he was dropping deep, fighting for the ball, and involving himself in the play. He regularly took 2 or 3 defenders to contain, and even if he didn't score many himself he made life a whole lot easier for those around him.
This is exactly the sort of player that Stamatelopoulos can be I reckon, he has all the attributes.
Yeah exactly. Look at Halloran's first goal v Brisbane. Ilso is running straight at the keeper drawing two defenders with him. This creates space for Halloran to run into just goal side of the pen spot to receive Goody's cut back, this offers Halloran the time to take a decent shot that would probably be harder to miss than score.
But that situation is also created by Isa putting a superbly weighted ball into a dangerous area for Goody to run on to. This is something we rarely see from the midfield trio. Not that this is a criticism of Isa, that isn't his role.
My hope is that once Boland is back and fit we start to see him providing those balls.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby shinAUFC Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:56 am

Fantastic above posts!

Totally agree a striker is more than just goals, thats why jeronimo was never in favour at the club.

When we go forward we lack a target who can hold the ball and ensure the ball does not bounce right back catching our mids out of position.

This is something ilso did well and magically halloran scored a brace in that game.

AP is a fantastic prospect and a poacher but probably cant be a solid target bringing others into the game ( not yet atleast)
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Stuckey Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:14 pm

Fantastic above posts!

Totally agree a striker is more than just goals, thats why jeronimo was never in favour at the club.

When we go forward we lack a target who can hold the ball and ensure the ball does not bounce right back catching our mids out of position.

This is something ilso did well and magically halloran scored a brace in that game.

AP is a fantastic prospect and a poacher but probably cant be a solid target bringing others into the game ( not yet atleast)
IMO the skill involved in holding the ball up is so massively underrated. If it was simple AU would have signed someone to do it already. I'd say it's probably one of the hardest skills in football to master. To maintain body position against 1 or more large central defenders, while having the soft touch to receive the ball and with quick feet to hold the ball while being able to lift your eyes and identify who to pass off to and whether another defender is fast approaching. To offer your side 3-4 seconds to get several players in a more advanced position is invaluable to an attack. To complete that a player needs excellent core strength, stamina in the legs to keep up right, soft touch to keep the ball close, quick feet to maintain the ball, excellent positional awareness to know where you are and where your team mates are, good ears to hear team mates asking for the ball to be played to them and a thick skin to put up with all the "experts" who completely underrate this skill. ;)

If I had video editing skills as I'd love to create a highlight reel just of Bruce on the ball totally isolated from the rest of his side. There was times where Bruce would maintain possession while standing still under pressure from 3 defenders. He may not have been the fastest car in the garage but his holding skills were at times, phenomenal.
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby shinAUFC Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:46 pm

Fantastic above posts!

Totally agree a striker is more than just goals, thats why jeronimo was never in favour at the club.

When we go forward we lack a target who can hold the ball and ensure the ball does not bounce right back catching our mids out of position.

This is something ilso did well and magically halloran scored a brace in that game.

AP is a fantastic prospect and a poacher but probably cant be a solid target bringing others into the game ( not yet atleast)
IMO the skill involved in holding the ball up is so massively underrated. If it was simple AU would have signed someone to do it already. I'd say it's probably one of the hardest skills in football to master. To maintain body position against 1 or more large central defenders, while having the soft touch to receive the ball and with quick feet to hold the ball while being able to lift your eyes and identify who to pass off to and whether another defender is fast approaching. To offer your side 3-4 seconds to get several players in a more advanced position is invaluable to an attack. To complete that a player needs excellent core strength, stamina in the legs to keep up right, soft touch to keep the ball close, quick feet to maintain the ball, excellent positional awareness to know where you are and where your team mates are, good ears to hear team mates asking for the ball to be played to them and a thick skin to put up with all the "experts" who completely underrate this skill. ;)

If I had video editing skills as I'd love to create a highlight reel just of Bruce on the ball totally isolated from the rest of his side. There was times where Bruce would maintain possession while standing still under pressure from 3 defenders. He may not have been the fastest car in the garage but his holding skills were at times, phenomenal.
Totally agree stuckey, but your surely not arguing for a djite return are you?
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
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Re: Melbourne Victory v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Stuckey Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:07 pm

Fantastic above posts!

Totally agree a striker is more than just goals, thats why jeronimo was never in favour at the club.

When we go forward we lack a target who can hold the ball and ensure the ball does not bounce right back catching our mids out of position.

This is something ilso did well and magically halloran scored a brace in that game.

AP is a fantastic prospect and a poacher but probably cant be a solid target bringing others into the game ( not yet atleast)
IMO the skill involved in holding the ball up is so massively underrated. If it was simple AU would have signed someone to do it already. I'd say it's probably one of the hardest skills in football to master. To maintain body position against 1 or more large central defenders, while having the soft touch to receive the ball and with quick feet to hold the ball while being able to lift your eyes and identify who to pass off to and whether another defender is fast approaching. To offer your side 3-4 seconds to get several players in a more advanced position is invaluable to an attack. To complete that a player needs excellent core strength, stamina in the legs to keep up right, soft touch to keep the ball close, quick feet to maintain the ball, excellent positional awareness to know where you are and where your team mates are, good ears to hear team mates asking for the ball to be played to them and a thick skin to put up with all the "experts" who completely underrate this skill. ;)

If I had video editing skills as I'd love to create a highlight reel just of Bruce on the ball totally isolated from the rest of his side. There was times where Bruce would maintain possession while standing still under pressure from 3 defenders. He may not have been the fastest car in the garage but his holding skills were at times, phenomenal.
Totally agree stuckey, but your surely not arguing for a djite return are you?
Nah I'm happy for the club to look elsewhere. Bruce has barely played in the last few months. I think Ilso has shown himself to be HAL quality. I think once Blackwood comes back he Ilso and AP are enough depth for the striker role and AU can focus on if Baba goes where a top notch #10 can come from.
Time to Djbate!

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