Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Ghost Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:55 pm

So mrp panel has come out with its findings

Muscat got 2 games, Bobo was not even sighted by the mrp!!!!!!

Seriously!? He raked a players leg behind play. This league is broken sfc are clearly on top of the food chain little old aufc ccm and perth are just fodder
Apparently the MRP could not sight Bobo because the VAR noted that he had looked at the incident and made a decision so it is considered dealt with during the game. Of course the conclusion of the VAR was it was either a yellow card or red card offence but he was not sure which so Bobo gets nothing as the VAR cannot deal with missed yellow cards. TOTALLY WRONG.
In that case how did they over turn berishas shove of the ref he received a yellow for? Crazy!!
I don't know.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Ghost Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:07 pm

To make things even stranger, there is no yellow card offence that seems to cover the type of offence Bobo committed.

It is a yellow card offence to "shows a lack of respect for the game". I guess it is a kind of catch all for things that happen that are not explicitly covered elsewhere but was Delovski really considering whether it was violent conduct or showing a lack of respect for the game? We can never know but it smells a lot of trying to find an excuse not to punish a Sydney player.
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Re: RE: Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby bpowell454 Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:20 pm

So mrp panel has come out with its findings

Muscat got 2 games, Bobo was not even sighted by the mrp!!!!!!

Seriously!? He raked a players leg behind play. This league is broken sfc are clearly on top of the food chain little old aufc ccm and perth are just fodder
Apparently the MRP could not sight Bobo because the VAR noted that he had looked at the incident and made a decision so it is considered dealt with during the game. Of course the conclusion of the VAR was it was either a yellow card or red card offence but he was not sure which so Bobo gets nothing as the VAR cannot deal with missed yellow cards. TOTALLY WRONG.
In that case how did they over turn berishas shove of the ref he received a yellow for? Crazy!!
I asked this when we played WSW. How can cornthwaite be given a 2nd yellow for the handball in the penalty area? The VAR is being incorrectly used by our useless referees.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby sudden reversal Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:34 pm

The penalty is clearly a referee error, not a video error. IMHO there's nothing 100% clear cut in any of the video, so it would default to referees decision.

Semi-related, IMHO the officials missed a good thing by resisting the proposal for them to wear microphones a few years back. From the experience of other sports I believe their controversial calls would be vindicated most times.
I made the trip up from Adelaide to Newcastle for this game, so was there to witness this first hand. When the penalty was given and we saw the replay and that it was going to VAR, it was the first time I thought that the VAR was going to serve it's proper purpose - it was that obvious it wasn't a pen.

The penalty being upheld was an absolute farce. :bang:

As was no drinks breaks, as the humidity and heat were oppressive. I actually thought both teams played very well considering the conditions.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby ZANZIBAR Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:48 pm

So far this season we have seen that violent acts behind play are ok with the ffa. Both bobo and valeri have proven that. Yet have a ball kicked into your chest and bam...yellow card penalty.
What a joke.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Ghost Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:03 pm

So far this season we have seen that violent acts behind play are ok with the ffa. Both bobo and valeri have proven that. Yet have a ball kicked into your chest and bam...yellow card penalty.
What a joke.
Williams body slammed Isaias into the ground, but that was okay.
Bonevacia flew in and slammed his foot into the back of Isaias's leg and that was only a yellow card offence
Melling lunged in both feet off the ground and that was only a foul.
Berisha touches a referee twice in a short succession and that is only a yellow

No competence, no consistency, no fairness.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Old Gregg Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:26 am

A certain amount of inconsistency is to be expected (refs are humans, no two refs see the same offence in the same way, the same ref isn't going to officiate two games in exactly the same way), but what VAR has done is shine a spotlight on just how subjective the whole process is.

If a call is under video review you might expect it to somehow fit into an objective framework that irons out all the vagaries of human decision-making but that is not how it works. Somehow with the benefit of video tech refs are now expected to make decisions with an eye to every previous decision that came before .... at the same time as they're expected to make the call within a very short period of time.

Slight inconsistencies and poor calls I can handle, so long as they are made with honest intentions, but now we're expected to buy into this fiction that VAR will deliver objectively correct decisions, which is complete bullshit.

The best thing FFA / FIFA could do is embrace the fact that refereeing is inherently subjective and relies on refs having common sense and a feel for the game. Instead they've gone in the other direction.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby otto62 Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:23 pm

Sorry for the long post. A lot of rubbish on this thread, mixed in with a lot of accurate comments.

The referees - poor and inconsistent refereeing isn't really new, nor is a bias in favour of SFC and MV. But there's a difference between refs getting it wrong in the heat of the moment and VAR making considered decisions which always go in favour of SFC and MV.

The league - despite the bad ref decisions and the VAR, I love the A-league. It's such an even competition that any team can be at the bottom one year and at the top the next. I love that (this year) I can watch every game knowing AUFC has a fighting chance. I'll always be at the home games whenever I can.

FFA - I love them. For the good of the game as a whole I would back them every time against the selfishness of the club owners, including AUFC. Let the clubs gain control of the A-league right now and I would give it 5-10 years before it was stuffed again (like the bad old days of clubs running the NSL).

VAR - can't blame FFA for the fact we've got it (blame FIFA for that). VAR needs to limit what it rules on. Matters of fact only.

When a penalty is given - have only five things that VAR check:
(1) was it inside the penalty area;
(2) was there NO offside in the passage of play which leads to the goal;
(3) did the ball NOT cross the byline (not the side line) in the passage of play which leads to the penalty;
(4) for handball - did the ball make contact with the hand/arm;
(5) for a foul - did a defender make contact with the attacker.
If the answer to all questions is YES, then "PENALTY" on the big screen.
If the answer to any single question is NO, then "NO PENALTY" on the big screen.

If referee turns down a penalty appeal - then at REFS DISCRETION have VAR check:
(1) In case of handball appeal where ref think didn't hit hand at all - VAR check. (If refs waves of as not deliberate then no VAR) - if no contact then "NO PENALTY", if contact then either "PENALTY" if an obviously deliberate handball, or "REF'S CALL" if not obviously deliberate.
(2) In case of penalty appeal for a foul where ref believes no contact was made at all - then similar to (1) above;
(3) In case of penalty appeal where ref gives a free kick at the edge of box - VAR check for if initial contact is inside the box, with "PENALTY", "NO PENALTY" or "REFS CALL" on the screen.

When a goal is given - same sorts of things as above, show GOAL, NO GOAL, or REFS CALL on the screen.

If these are the only VAR questions then it leaves all matters of interpretation with the referee.

Where a red card is given - VAR automatically check ONLY was it mistaken identity.

Where a red card is NOT given - no VAR. Any red card incidents missed by ref to be taken up by MRP.

Any behind the play incidents to be dealt with by MRP not VAR. Should have a series of fines or retrospective yellow cards for incidents like Bobo off the ball.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby RedRebel Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:04 pm

I only just watched the highlights of the newy game just then.

I did see a replay of the penalty decision the other day and I've followed the fallout since then.

I'm not sure amid all the controversy if the first goal received any scrutiny but Nabbout was offside! By meters!! AU protested it but it stood. Why did VAR not look at this? Both Newy's goals came about in dodgy circumstances.

This is all just so, so poor.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby shinAUFC Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:13 pm

I only just watched the highlights of the newy game just then.

I did see a replay of the penalty decision the other day and I've followed the fallout since then.

I'm not sure amid all the controversy if the first goal received any scrutiny but Nabbout was offside! By meters!! AU protested it but it stood. Why did VAR not look at this? Both Newy's goals came about in dodgy circumstances.

This is all just so, so poor.
The ball was played forward by the defender, it was a fair goal
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby terry tibbs Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:30 pm

Can't see a reason for any REF'S CALL.

This is supposed to be accurate. It seems the reason we're seeing a lot of the stupidity and confusion is to protect refs.

Penalty calls, offsides and goal line are all black and white. VAR should check and rule. Done, dusted and (reasonably) quick.

A REF'S CALL decision is trying to have it both ways, and in the interests of accuracy - ie the entire reason for introducing VAR - it doesn't have a place in this at all.

I have no issue with the human side of the game, and refs will get things wrong sometimes. With VAR done properly, there's no need for that. If IFAB and/or FIFA and/or FFA can't stomach seeing refs over-ruled, there's no place for this experiment at all.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby otto62 Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:46 pm

Can't see a reason for any REF'S CALL.

This is supposed to be accurate. It seems the reason we're seeing a lot of the stupidity and confusion is to protect refs.

Penalty calls, offsides and goal line are all black and white. VAR should check and rule. Done, dusted and (reasonably) quick.

A REF'S CALL decision is trying to have it both ways, and in the interests of accuracy - ie the entire reason for introducing VAR - it doesn't have a place in this at all.

I have no issue with the human side of the game, and refs will get things wrong sometimes. With VAR done properly, there's no need for that. If IFAB and/or FIFA and/or FFA can't stomach seeing refs over-ruled, there's no place for this experiment at all.
I think there's definitely room for a REF's CALL - when the video is inconclusive - did it hit the arm or did it hit the chest, what if video doesn't show one way or the other - REF's CALL. Was it inside the penalty box or outside - it could be clear on video, but it could be so close that the VAR can't make a ruling one way or the other - REF's CALL. Was it offside or not, it could be so close that with the camera angle the VAR can't really tell for certain one way or the other - REF's CALL.

Once it's running smoothly and everyone knows exactly what's being ruled on, I'd mic the VAR.
So for example the Strain penalty would have been like this.
"Checking if it was inside the penalty area." .... "Inside the area."
"Checking if the ball went out of play." ... "Ball in play."
"Checking if there was offside." ... "No offside."
"Checking if the ball contacts the arm." ... "Result pending."
"Check other angle."
"Check close up."
"No penalty."

(Of course the stupid VAR could still have ruled: "Checking if ball contacts the arm." ... "Inconclusive." ... "Ref's Call.")

No reason for the on-field Ref to go to the sidelines.
No interpretation by the VAR about was it deliberate hand ball, or was it a foul that should result in a penalty, or should it be a yellow or a red - just the facts.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Philbyramone Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:57 pm

Calling “Handball” and giving a penalty is game defining at that point of the game.
The ref would have to be sure he saw handball. I can’t see how he saw handball. He was guessing.
Also, even if it is did hit the upper arm it was unintentional. The ball ricocheted and was speeding away from goal into an empty space.

Etc

Just a shit decision, and what’s worse, he had so much time to review it and change it.

There will always be shit decisions it seems.

Move on.


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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby Old Gregg Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Penalty calls, offsides ... all black and white.
They're really not though. There are all sorts of moments that split opinion despite watching a thousand replays from a dozen different angles.

Goal line tech is a different story because you can be absolutely precise in a way that you can't with (e.g.) offside.
...

On the ref taking two minutes to check every aspect of a pen / goal with the guy watching replays: that's how it's done in NRL, and it fucking sucks.
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Re: Newcastle Jets v Adelaide United Match Day Jamboree!!!©

Postby otto62 Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:27 pm

Penalty calls, offsides ... all black and white.
On the ref taking two minutes to check every aspect of a pen / goal with the guy watching replays: that's how it's done in NRL, and it fucking sucks.
Agreed. I'd rather leave it to the ref on the field, but if we're going to have VAR then ... yes, like the NRL and like the cricket - learn from those who've made it as good as it's ever going to be.

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