Who's signed for next season

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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:11 am


I agree it would be great to see aufc offer longer term deals for the kids, but then we reach an impossible impasse due to the cap. Offer a long term deal to the current kids and risk missing out on a Mabil and Mcgree the year later due to having already committed valuable roster positions and cap space to underperformed players who are now on a long term deal.

-keep the cap
-keep marquees
-Allow incentives or credits to clubs with an in house approach.

Everyone wins
Yeah that could become a problem signing long term prospects. But that's where I'd love to see a home grown player rule expanded. If a player lines up for a HAL club's NPL or NYL side an agreed amount (50 games if the amount of games is increased in the future) then until that player leaves the club their wages are exempt from the cap. The clubs can begin focusing on locking in as much of their talent as possible without worrying about room in the cap. Then the cap can be used to sign better players to fill in the gaps that the development systems aren't meeting.
It will also mean the club will take a more long term approach with youth as replacing them would be a costly exercise as far as the cap is concerned.
I've thought about this also and actually it will hurt us. Any time you can exempt money from the cap, the big clubs win.
Adelaide can basically afford to pay the cap and no more, keeping say Strain, Mileusnic, Elsey, AP out of the cap doesn't help us as we've got no extra $$$ to spend.

I also wonder if these arguments would be null and void if $400k-a-year-flop Baba was actually playing and playing to his potential.

South Australians out of contract at years end:
Troisi
O'Doherty
Tongyik
Inman
R.McGowan

Plus the ones we already have
If the big clubs go to the effort of blooding youth to the point that can potentially compete for trophies with their local talent in key positions then power to them i say, We shouldnt fear this.

That is rather unlikely thogh given the lack of chances the big clubs offer their youth, and why should they bother anyway if they can afford players like honda ninkovic or toivenen.

I do see your pont but nothing can possibly be fool proof and it atleast offers incentves to generate players.

I totally reject that we could not spend outside the cap though, you yourself said baba is a 400k strker and isaias is reportedly 300k. Thats roughly 700k over the cap in marquees already. Being able to pay an extra 50k for a local player may be the difference in keeping them and building mini dynasties or keeping them long enogh to earn transfer fees.
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Reds4Life
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Reds4Life Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:35 am

We couldn't spend the money outside the cap that others do, I reckon thats pretty clear.
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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:27 pm

Well 700k over the cap hardly makes us one of the smaller clubs for a start.

Being out spent by larger clubs is not the issue at all, honestly thats just football. Particularly when they can only outspend the league on 2 marquees.

It still keeps things even enough to be a contest.

Even if a smaller club spends 500k over the cap but it means they are able to keep 5 very promising of their own products then surely there is positive for the big clubs , small clubs and australian football in general and potentially that smaller club may have generated better overall quality than a wealthy club ( talent permitted )

Yes a big club may have an arzani in their ranks, but its highly unlikely they will have a generation of promising players given they do not look to promote talent as smaller clubs are more or less forced too.

Suddenly everyone has a fighting chance or atleast ab ability to peak every 3 years.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
otto62
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:20 pm

What's better use of our money though - $700k on Isaias and a marquee - or $250k on keeping four good youngsters in which case you have to go without one of either Isaias or a marquee. Sorry, but for me we need a marquee (one who actually plays) and some quality foreigners (ie Isaias, Boland, Cirio, Cassio level quality) if we're going to compete.

Let's say a smaller club spent their $500k betting on youngsters to come good, the problem is that they most likely won't develop the way they should unless they've got top quality players around them to learn from - eg like Isaias and a good foreign marquee.
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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:25 pm

Yes i understand your point, but why does it have to be absolutely youth or marquees with no wiggle room? Let clubs decide their own level of risk/reward.

If we can all agree 700k for isaias and baba is a ballpark marquee figure. Who says you cant have 1 marquee at 400k and then use the other money to have a fighting chance at 3 of your kids who are primed to be the next elsey, mabil and mcgree and potentially profit financially in the future and you will still have change from that 700k

Lets say you could only put 30% of their salary outside of the cap you still are not paying an outragous amount while having the competitive edge in keeping them.

Also there is absolutely no reason you cant fit quality inside the cap. Boland , goodwin, halloran, troisi, cirio, pablo ferriera cassio etc etc are all players who fit inside the cap and were clear quality.

All the big clubs need is a few injuries to marquees and their depth and reliance on individuals is shown up . Where as other clubs may attempt a more even spread of talend with more depth via in house methods.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
otto62
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:57 pm

Shin, I hear you. But in your scenario of marquee, plus keep 3 good youngsters, you'd lose Isaias.
Would you rather (1) spend the money to keep Blackwood, AP, Konsta and Stama; or (2) keep Isaias and hope Pacifique, Armiento and others can step up to the bench spots? AU have been following option 2 and I think that's the better move for us.

If you say keep the youngsters AND Isaias AND a marquee, where would you find the $200k savings to do that?
(Serious question. It's a zero sum game. We don't have any extra money to spend.)
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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Isaias would be marquee , or he could be fit into the cap.

Victory have fit troisi into the cap i dont see why we need to assume a quality player cannot fit into the cap. Isaias was a cap player prior when he first came to australia. Do you not think its odd we can retain a visa player with thie marquee cap exemption while we have almost zero options in keeping our own born and raises who probably grew up supporting the club?

There are also plenty of good strikers in this league who also fit in the cap.

Its a not a one size fits all argument.

I guess im just giving an example where mid to small clubs ( with context to aufc ) can spend less overall, have a marquee, have the ability to retain their own products while potentially having a greater overall quality within the squad.

Im not saying all clubs should or would do it, im not saying its a fool proof plan to success. Its simply opening a new pathway to clubs with less money who could earn success via longterm planning and investment in youth and coaches.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:39 pm

I dont understand the opposition to incentivising clubs to develop their own players when on the other end of the spectrum we have incentives for big clubs to flex their wallets on aging big names who care very little about the state of the game in australia , the system seems skewed to me. ( btw i totally support the marquee system it certainly has its place)

Now im not saying my proposal Of 30% of a club products salary being exempt is the right way or only way. It merely spit balling as an example and im sure there are many other ways to offer incentives.

However as it currently stands there is very little incentive to generating ones own youth as you do all the work and another club takes advantage without even paying a fee simply because of the cap restrictions , To be succesfull in this league is more about getting lucky with visa signings and keeping your first 11 fit. A promising player is nothing more than a bonus.

Now look at the NSL, for all its short comings it produced some world class players. Clubs knew their youth could both bring success and earn them viability for the future.

Im certainly not saying the NSL model is the way to go. However an emphasis was on youth out of necessity and this manifested in the quality of the socceroos.

There needs to be middle ground and the local league MUST be the starting point in generating our best and brightest.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:56 pm

I suppose another way of doing it is tweaking the youth marquee rule allowing a couple of U23 marquees to players who have played 20 or more npl/ youth appearances.

Thats probably a much easier way of allowing smaller clubs an avenue to keep their most promising kids from going to another aleague club.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
otto62
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:27 pm

Again, I'm not opposed to the idea of cap exemptions for locally produced players, but for AU, we'd have to find the $200k in savings from somewhere else.

From the comments about it seems like the option being suggested is keep Isaias, but don't have a (proper) marquee.

If that's the idea, fine, I just think that leaves us short on quality.
BenAD
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby BenAD Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:48 pm

In my mind the whole purpose of holding these young players is to sell them and thus make the money that you use on marquees.
Reds4Life
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Reds4Life Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:56 pm

I dont like release clauses. I realise we are a small club in a small league but you lose players for under their value.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby bpowell454 Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 pm

Someone just told me that Elsey has broken a bone in his foot and is done for the season!

Edit-

Confirmed.Image
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Rojos
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Rojos Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:57 pm

Someone just told me that Elsey has broken a bone in his foot and is done for the season!

Edit-

Confirmed.Image
Image
Reds4Life
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Reds4Life Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:41 pm

Anyone in the NPL maybe ?? We dont need a back up anymore, we need a starter.

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