Who's signed for next season

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shinAUFC
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:50 am

I think my point was missed somewhere along the line , or i didnt quite articulate my point well. Its more a critique if the yearly outrage over a player exodus.

Every year outrage ensues that we are letting out most promising players leave , players who have played well above their minimal salaries.

Totally agree there will always be outside interest and l it is of course a factor some may leave. We can agree or disagree this is good for football.

All aleague clubs are forced to watch their youth products walk away despite wanting to keep them. More often than not the salary cap is the limiting factor.

This is just a reality of a league where we have a salary cap in the form of the one in the aleague, the yearly outrage about a x players leaving is totally irrational and doea not take into account the salary cap limitations .

Im sure the athletic bilbao model is the stuff of fantasies for aufc fans. All im saying is for better or worse its just not possible under our cap.

Take a look at this 6 minute clip for reference
Yeah obviously losing someone of value is always going to be a tough thing to take for some people. But we often only really read extreme emotions from people on here or elsewhere. If you're fully against a player leaving then there is a natural impulse to make noise about it. If you're happy they are leaving I doubt we'd read much from that person.
I think McGree leaving and the circumstances round that and the circumstances round Euge leaving are the main two exits I've found tough to take for different reasons. The McGree exit hit me hardest and I really took a step back from the club for a bit around that.

On to your other point. Personally I don't see the attraction to such a regimented recruitment system like Bilbao's so much debate on whether players a eligible and so many technicalities allowing players to sign.
Plus I'm not confident that even with a huge focus on development will we see an AU side comprised of purely SA players win anything. That's not to say there isn't a good amount of SA players around. But I feel it would be far more straightforward to aim for a SA only side but then fill the gaps with smart recruitment.
A good example is the Barca model of a few years ago. Lots of La Masia players making up the bulk of the squad with the holes filled with great players from elsewhere.
Now obviously AU aren't in a position to sign the best players but you get the idea I'm sure.
But since AU is still struggling to get a decent development structure in place. We can't really point to the great developmental clubs of Spain and say that's what we need to be doing. AU needs to walk before it can run, and their development systems are barely crawling along!
Stuckey im not advocating for the bilbao or even barca model for home grown players at AUFC.

Im simply saying such expectations are unrealistic. Losing Kamau, odoherty, tongyik etc really does suck but with the salary caps current form we can ( or any other club ) only reasonably expect to retain a sprinkling of players who will represent us as seniors.

Dont get me wrong , i personally would love something similar but not identical to the bilbao set up as IMO being able able to have a shared experience or heritage with with aufc players would help invoke alot of passion for the club.

However we all need to realise Aleague clubs are franchises in a very unique league set up that see’s almost total squad turn over every 2-3 years.

To put it simply ..... dont hate the player ( the club) hate the game lol
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby BenAD Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:22 am

Its definitely always an issue keeping players who overperformed their wage, the league is all about making sure you aren't overpaying and have one or two young breakthroughs.

It is frustrating as a fan losing players who you have watched for many years, but thats football.

With the old owners I was always worried (more so when Petrillo left), that they wouldn't be able to replace them.

In reality this next season is the big test for the new ones, they have no one to blame but themselves if the squad is up to date. Given how quickly we had a full squad last season (and for the first time since I can remember before most clubs) and we able to get players like Goodwin, Jakobsen, Halloran, I am happy to put faith in them to get it right.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:44 pm

Its definitely always an issue keeping players who overperformed their wage, the league is all about making sure you aren't overpaying and have one or two young breakthroughs.

It is frustrating as a fan losing players who you have watched for many years, but thats football.

With the old owners I was always worried (more so when Petrillo left), that they wouldn't be able to replace them.

In reality this next season is the big test for the new ones, they have no one to blame but themselves if the squad is up to date. Given how quickly we had a full squad last season (and for the first time since I can remember before most clubs) and we able to get players like Goodwin, Jakobsen, Halloran, I am happy to put faith in them to get it right.
Yeah your right.

I think the salary cap works fantastic in the afl. Clubs are able to plan their peak up to 5-6 years ahead. Its also about timing your groups peak when others are in a trough.

Where the aleague differs is our league is not the pinnacle of the sport so clubs cannot plan more than 2 years ahead and the salary cap exacerbates this even more when players improve above their salary IMO , but that is not to say it is all negative either.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Reds4Life Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:48 pm

Its definitely a fine line.

Without the cap the smaller clubs get swallowed up and outspent, with the cap you cant reward those kids you develop and instead they go elsewhere.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it cant stay as it is, nor can it be a free for all.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:23 pm

Yeah its a very complicated task trying to find a happy medium.

I think there needs to be incentives for big clubs to bring world class names to our shores ( which the marquee system works very well) while also allowing a pathway for smaller clubs to reep the rewards of quality youth systems. Arguably it gives everyone a fighting chance to climb the summit via different pathways.

It is a very complex issue though.

Think some kind of credits system for clubs who have senior players that have graduated from their youth ranks, perhaps something like 30% of the players salary could be exempt from the cap would be a good base to work from

Obviously a club would still need to fund the extra cash and both parties need to agree to the terms but it at very least allows clubs pole position in retaining their products and squad identity.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Stuckey Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:10 pm

I think my point was missed somewhere along the line , or i didnt quite articulate my point well. Its more a critique if the yearly outrage over a player exodus.

Every year outrage ensues that we are letting out most promising players leave , players who have played well above their minimal salaries.

Totally agree there will always be outside interest and l it is of course a factor some may leave. We can agree or disagree this is good for football.

All aleague clubs are forced to watch their youth products walk away despite wanting to keep them. More often than not the salary cap is the limiting factor.

This is just a reality of a league where we have a salary cap in the form of the one in the aleague, the yearly outrage about a x players leaving is totally irrational and doea not take into account the salary cap limitations .

Im sure the athletic bilbao model is the stuff of fantasies for aufc fans. All im saying is for better or worse its just not possible under our cap.

Take a look at this 6 minute clip for reference
Yeah obviously losing someone of value is always going to be a tough thing to take for some people. But we often only really read extreme emotions from people on here or elsewhere. If you're fully against a player leaving then there is a natural impulse to make noise about it. If you're happy they are leaving I doubt we'd read much from that person.
I think McGree leaving and the circumstances round that and the circumstances round Euge leaving are the main two exits I've found tough to take for different reasons. The McGree exit hit me hardest and I really took a step back from the club for a bit around that.

On to your other point. Personally I don't see the attraction to such a regimented recruitment system like Bilbao's so much debate on whether players a eligible and so many technicalities allowing players to sign.
Plus I'm not confident that even with a huge focus on development will we see an AU side comprised of purely SA players win anything. That's not to say there isn't a good amount of SA players around. But I feel it would be far more straightforward to aim for a SA only side but then fill the gaps with smart recruitment.
A good example is the Barca model of a few years ago. Lots of La Masia players making up the bulk of the squad with the holes filled with great players from elsewhere.
Now obviously AU aren't in a position to sign the best players but you get the idea I'm sure.
But since AU is still struggling to get a decent development structure in place. We can't really point to the great developmental clubs of Spain and say that's what we need to be doing. AU needs to walk before it can run, and their development systems are barely crawling along!
Stuckey im not advocating for the bilbao or even barca model for home grown players at AUFC.

Im simply saying such expectations are unrealistic. Losing Kamau, odoherty, tongyik etc really does suck but with the salary caps current form we can ( or any other club ) only reasonably expect to retain a sprinkling of players who will represent us as seniors.

Dont get me wrong , i personally would love something similar but not identical to the bilbao set up as IMO being able able to have a shared experience or heritage with with aufc players would help invoke alot of passion for the club.

However we all need to realise Aleague clubs are franchises in a very unique league set up that see’s almost total squad turn over every 2-3 years.

To put it simply ..... dont hate the player ( the club) hate the game lol
Yeah I didn't think you were, I was just expressing my thoughts.
Personally I think the HAL could exist in one of two directions,
1. Focus on a youth and gear the cap to enable clubs to focus on holding on to those players till a stage where the club is able to benefit most financially.
2. Or reward players who stick around and build clubs up from a fan point of view much like the petro leagues do. This would mostly stifle development and see the national side suffer. But in theory the national league would prosper.

IMO the HAL sits in between these two options not really serving either purpose. Really in nowhere's land. If the league was a keeper they would be getting chipped over their head non-stop!
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:14 pm

You read my mind stuckey Great minds think alike ;).

I made very similar points in the post above yours but its somehow time stamped as me posting it an hour before . I think we posted at the same time ? Or did my drivel break the forum LOL

IMO the cap in its current form prevents smaller clubs from competing due to not being able to retain players while bug clubs are able sign 2 marquees who played at the world cup.

Wheb you think about it, it just puts a cieling on most clubs apart from the big 3 and gives them a much bigger chance of success without really needing to invest heavily.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby bpowell454 Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Juric has been told by his Swiss club to look for a new club and not to bother coming to training. Ouch.

HAL bound you'd think.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Reds4Life Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:06 am

Get him here next season.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Stuckey Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:38 am

You read my mind stuckey Great minds think alike ;).

I made very similar points in the post above yours but its somehow time stamped as me posting it an hour before . I think we posted at the same time ? Or did my drivel break the forum LOL

IMO the cap in its current form prevents smaller clubs from competing due to not being able to retain players while bug clubs are able sign 2 marquees who played at the world cup.

Wheb you think about it, it just puts a cieling on most clubs apart from the big 3 and gives them a much bigger chance of success without really needing to invest heavily.
Personally I don't think the cap is completely to blame. All clubs have access to the same rules (except the FFA sponsored marquee rule we could argue) so the playing field is level as far as that goes because as long as club can afford to pay better players they can. So like all leagues the clubs with more money are at an advantage. Which is like everything else in life so I think it's understandable it has it's place in football.
My beef (and I feel your's as well) is the structure of the cap. The current structure of the cap only helps those richer clubs, it's not helping the league as a whole (except that it does save the poorer clubs from blowing their budgets on unsustainable recuitment), it's not helping the national side, its not aiding youth development.
Obviously we're going round in circles here as our debate changes nothing but I'd just love the HAL to wake up to itself and realise its place in the world. At best we're a feeder league to Europe and the big Asian leagues. So we should be seeing healthy transfer fees like the league experienced a few years ago with players like Mabil and Ryan getting locked into long term deal at their HAL club and moving on to decent clubs in Europe for healthy transfer fee. Or signing in fringe Socceroos that are of interest in Asia like Rostyn Griffiths leaving CCM for $1.3m to China. IMO that sort of stuff should be happening every season and it's not.

My big hope is that the AU owners identify this and hopefully they start locking in players like Blackwood and AP on 3 year deals. Then sell them on for a healthy fee and re-investing that money into actually establishing a decent development structure within the FFSA and hopefully within 3-5 years the club can begin a conveyor belt of talent that can give the club 2-3 seasons of quality before moving on to bigger things in Europe and for the NT. IMO the club is still just fishing for talent when they need to be farming talent.
Who knows in a decade AU could be building itself up as something like the Ajax of Asian football and be a real destination for youth and coaches to come and make a name for themselves.
IMO if work started on a serious development structure within the club it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect within a decade AU's salary cap could be completely paid for by transfer fees over a 5 year period (meaning maybe one year it isn't then the next year a larger fee makes up for that). I believe with the money being splashed around in the middle east and China, and Australian's being an Asian nation have a great opportunity to cash in on all that. At the moment we're ignoring those opportunities. The Chinese Super League had a combined transfer spend of €190m this season. Which from a league that IMO isn't miles away from the standard of the HAL.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:10 pm

Yep. I Think we are on the same page.

We can agree the current cap allows the bigger clubs to express their financial might with big name marquees and the ability to use the full cap. ( i totally support this, we need some quality in the league )

We also seem to agree players performing above their current salaries are unduely hard to keep for a contract renewal ( much more than if the salary cap did not exist) due to the current restrictions in the cap and this will tend to hurt smaller clubs who rely on local products, while also discouraging clubs to heavily invest in youth.

As you mentioned, the cap in your opinion ( and mine ) does not help the smaller clubs in anyway apart from not blowing out their budget. It only encourages clubs to buy success or to simply keep their head above water.

There absolutely nothing wrong with buying success but lets also allow room for smaller clubs to build success. IMO a “build it or buy it “ approach with the cap is a much fairer way for clubs to be policed under the cap and arguably a MUCH better result fr australian football.

I agree it would be great to see aufc offer longer term deals for the kids, but then we reach an impossible impasse due to the cap. Offer a long term deal to the current kids and risk missing out on a Mabil and Mcgree the year later due to having already committed valuable roster positions and cap space to underperformed players who are now on a long term deal.

-keep the cap
-keep marquees
-Allow incentives or credits to clubs with an in house approach.

Everyone wins
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Stuckey Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:13 am


I agree it would be great to see aufc offer longer term deals for the kids, but then we reach an impossible impasse due to the cap. Offer a long term deal to the current kids and risk missing out on a Mabil and Mcgree the year later due to having already committed valuable roster positions and cap space to underperformed players who are now on a long term deal.

-keep the cap
-keep marquees
-Allow incentives or credits to clubs with an in house approach.

Everyone wins
Yeah that could become a problem signing long term prospects. But that's where I'd love to see a home grown player rule expanded. If a player lines up for a HAL club's NPL or NYL side an agreed amount (50 games if the amount of games is increased in the future) then until that player leaves the club their wages are exempt from the cap. The clubs can begin focusing on locking in as much of their talent as possible without worrying about room in the cap. Then the cap can be used to sign better players to fill in the gaps that the development systems aren't meeting.
It will also mean the club will take a more long term approach with youth as replacing them would be a costly exercise as far as the cap is concerned.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Rojos Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:56 am


I agree it would be great to see aufc offer longer term deals for the kids, but then we reach an impossible impasse due to the cap. Offer a long term deal to the current kids and risk missing out on a Mabil and Mcgree the year later due to having already committed valuable roster positions and cap space to underperformed players who are now on a long term deal.

-keep the cap
-keep marquees
-Allow incentives or credits to clubs with an in house approach.

Everyone wins
Yeah that could become a problem signing long term prospects. But that's where I'd love to see a home grown player rule expanded. If a player lines up for a HAL club's NPL or NYL side an agreed amount (50 games if the amount of games is increased in the future) then until that player leaves the club their wages are exempt from the cap. The clubs can begin focusing on locking in as much of their talent as possible without worrying about room in the cap. Then the cap can be used to sign better players to fill in the gaps that the development systems aren't meeting.
It will also mean the club will take a more long term approach with youth as replacing them would be a costly exercise as far as the cap is concerned.
I've thought about this also and actually it will hurt us. Any time you can exempt money from the cap, the big clubs win.
Adelaide can basically afford to pay the cap and no more, keeping say Strain, Mileusnic, Elsey, AP out of the cap doesn't help us as we've got no extra $$$ to spend.

I also wonder if these arguments would be null and void if $400k-a-year-flop Baba was actually playing and playing to his potential.

South Australians out of contract at years end:
Troisi
O'Doherty
Tongyik
Inman
R.McGowan

Plus the ones we already have
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Old Gregg Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:08 am

I remember years and years ago a section on TWG (when it was on Sunday afternoon) featuring an up-and-comer from Adelaide who was trying his luck in Europe. They were interviewing his dad too who was basically saying the A-League sucks and you're a failure if you're playing here rather than O/S. In my mind it was Troisi (I think it was an Italian family) but could just as well have been Esposito or someone else.
Anyone recall this?
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:49 pm

Rojos is on the money. No amount of exemptions from the cap for local players will give us more dollars to spend on players.

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