Who's signed for next season

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Stuckey
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Stuckey Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:42 am

- O'Doherty, offered a 2 year deal in pre-season, hasnt been revised looks like he'll end up in Brisbane.
really?
Turning down a 2 year deal and wanting to piss off to Brisbane Roar?
What's the point of supporting our young players if they're always sniffing around for something different?
Kamau and Mauk all over again. Sick of it.
Depends on the deal I guess. As far as I know he's on a minimum wage contract till the end of this season. If AU just offered another 2 year contract for similar money. Why wouldn't a player who at the start of the season was a good chance to feature heavily, be of the belief he's worth more than that.
Obviously I don't know really what contract he was offered. I'm glad AU at least did offer him one.

This is probably another example of the salary cap making life far harder for the clubs. There isn't a lot of room to move on things so if a player has a break out season and (naturally) expects their wage to reflect their value to the club. The club may not have the room to offer the player that wage even if they wanted to. Then they are in the position of hoping a high paid player moves on to make room. Which them places the club's depth at risk.

I've said this before, but the HAL desperately needs to reward clubs who put time and resources into development. If a player comes thru that HAL club's development squads and hits a certain number of games with those squads, their wage should be exempt from the cap until they leave that club. Imagine the side AU could have if Elsey, Kamau, Mabil, Tongyik, McGree, Malik (if he didn't leave for NQF), O'Doherty, Konstandopoulos, Strain, Izzo (if he didn't join CCM) were all part of the squad but not included in the cap! The would leave the 2.7m (or whatever it is now) to spend on about 10 players.
But obviously that extra money needs to come from somewhere and that's where I believe locking these talented kids into longer deals will pay for it's self. If they stay and perform. You'll have more fans contacted with the club seeing their young stars become home town heroes. Or they stay till a decent offer from abroad comes and clubs get more significant transfer fees to the re-invest back into the next talented youth. Part of the Mabil transfer fee goes into keeping Kamau here longer. Then the Kamau fee partly goes towards keeping McGree here longer and so on.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Old Gregg Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:15 am

I am not saying it's an Adelaide problem only but an issue with the structure of the league & the transfer system, and having young players get stars in their eyes is always going to affect clubs like us more than those in the bigger cities. I wholeheartedly agree that if we are going to keep the salary cap there needs to be more incentive to allow clubs to hold on to players that have developed there.

I get why he might want to move if the money or the deal is better but can't really see how Brisbane is a more attractive place to play football & the club is a continual basket case, even more so than us. At a deeper level, players treating their football as 'just a job' rubs off on supporters (not talking about O'Doherty here because I don't know the ins & outs of his particular situation). Maybe I'm too much of romantic but this sort of stuff just leaves me cold.

For me my attitude has changed a bit since we won the GF. Immediately after (and even before) winning the title in front of 50k fans there were players plotting moves away and the owners looking to shift other players on. Made me realise that it's never going to get better, irrespective of whether United wins silverware, plays well as a team, or has the support of the city.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Totally agree
The salary cap in its current structure actually advantages the wealthier clubs, there is no way for clubs to retain their youth and very little chance of secure a meaning transfer fee unless they are on a long term deal, but long term deals are super risky with salary cap and squad ristrictions.

Remove the cap and allow transfer fees between clubs. Clubs will easier find their own identity and methods to competing .

Cashed up clubs can buy players, others can devlope abd profit from their own talent.

I 100% beleive smaller clubs can still win trophies against the cash of city and sfc while competing in an open player market with intelligent youth systems and player rentention.

There is currently no way mid to lower income clubs can keep or profit from their youth systems.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:38 pm

If i can make an analogy.....

The salary cap is similar to drug testing in sport.

On the surface it makes for an even playing field, look a little deeper and it just rewards those with the deepest pockets and biggest rescources to manouver around the obstacles doing the total opposite to what it was designed for
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby sub007 Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:18 pm

Pacifique signed a two and a half year scholarship deal.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby leigh Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:44 pm

Our club will continue to have its emerging young players leave as we have no transitional contract pathway from what is essentially a junior to senior player contract. The systems in place support a developmental strategy of utilizing young players as low risk/low cost employees that does not acknowledge young players moving into senior player contracts with suitable senior player wages.

I believe it is at the heart of our owners vision of a club with ranks filled out with locals... those young players conveyor belt in and out of the club keeping costs super low and reducing risk of long expensive bust contracts ( see Baba ). With this standard in place we will not see young players become established, we will not see young players captain this club, they will be told and the impetus will be on them to serve the club rather than a fair and amicable agreement. There is a reason a number of players left our youth system and signed on at local level to at least feel respected as a professional and to earn a living wage. Young players have come and gone through our system and will continue to do so, they will and I imagine will continue also to speak highly of our coaches, support staff and fellow players, those who handle their financial futures though? not so much.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:06 pm

If the salary cap was to go I would expect MV and SFC to completely dominate the league. They would snap up every other clubs best players even quicker than they do now. Their imports would go to an even higher level as well.
Salary cap should definitely be retained, but I do like the idea of a discount when counting young player's salary in the salary cap - say a 10% discount if they played juniors in the same state, plus 10% for each year they have been at the club. So a locally born player who does comes in for 2 or 3 years in the NPL would have a 30% or 40% discount applied when calculating the salary cap.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Stuckey Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:19 pm

If the salary cap was to go I would expect MV and SFC to completely dominate the league. They would snap up every other clubs best players even quicker than they do now. Their imports would go to an even higher level as well.
Salary cap should definitely be retained, but I do like the idea of a discount when counting young player's salary in the salary cap - say a 10% discount if they played juniors in the same state, plus 10% for each year they have been at the club. So a locally born player who does comes in for 2 or 3 years in the NPL would have a 30% or 40% discount applied when calculating the salary cap.
Yeah absolutely. A 10 team league with no salary cap would be a disaster!
I would be interested in looking at what I understand the NBA salary model to be if the was a push to steer away from the salary cap.
From what I understand the NBA has a salary cap. Once a side spends over that limit every dollar that gets exceeded must be matched dollar for dollar with funding going towards the league. Obviously the FFA would be the one receiving this payment although it would be nice to see it go to the state federations or local clubs that apply for it.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:40 pm

If the salary cap was to go I would expect MV and SFC to completely dominate the league. They would snap up every other clubs best players even quicker than they do now. Their imports would go to an even higher level as well.
Salary cap should definitely be retained, but I do like the idea of a discount when counting young player's salary in the salary cap - say a 10% discount if they played juniors in the same state, plus 10% for each year they have been at the club. So a locally born player who does comes in for 2 or 3 years in the NPL would have a 30% or 40% discount applied when calculating the salary cap.
Yeah absolutely. A 10 team league with no salary cap would be a disaster!
I would be interested in looking at what I understand the NBA salary model to be if the was a push to steer away from the salary cap.
From what I understand the NBA has a salary cap. Once a side spends over that limit every dollar that gets exceeded must be matched dollar for dollar with funding going towards the league. Obviously the FFA would be the one receiving this payment although it would be nice to see it go to the state federations or local clubs that apply for it.
I disagree stuckey.

In a small league with limited games there are only 22positions x27 rounds available for the top 2 clubs.

Players need game time to progress and will seek first team football as will promising youth.

An open market particularly in a small 10 team league will help ensure clubs are functioning as efficiently as possible.

The aleague pond is so small that the gap between an average aleague player and a great top division npl player is quite small quality wise.

What this means is the difference between a first team cb at adelaide united to sfc ( in an uncapped league ) could be $400 000, yet the gap in quality would not be as substantial.

Is Alex Wilkinson or Bujis $400000 better defenders than Elsey for example. The top clubs end up paying much more for only a fraction more quality.

If we had a 20 team league with 3 divisions then obviously an uncapped league would have a much greater influence in seeing a predictable lopsided league every season. However we only have 10 professional teams and a whole list if quality in the npl.

Yes the richest can have a bling 11 but the gap in quality would not be substantial at all
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:46 pm

My only caveat to that is the 5 visa players are where the difference in quality would be felt as they are beinh pulled from an endless talent pool.

For an open market to work and not severely favour the top one or 2 clubs there would need to be tighter restrictions on visa players to possibly only 3.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby Stuckey Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:54 pm

I can see what you're saying, and I agree, you throw a player from Huddersfield into the Man Utd set up and they'll probably look as good as anyone currently signed. But an uncapped HAL would look significantly different to how it looks now.
SFC would presumably have Buijs and Wilkinson at CB, then on the bench would be Elsey and Shenkvield.
So not only would the starting 11 be of a higher quality but the club's depth would be miles better.

AU would still have paper thin squads that a poorly timed injury can ruin a month, where as SFC and MC would be able to lose 4-5 players and still put out a side the envy of the likes of AU or CCM.

With the way the HAL and NPL season don't align there rarely is the option of throwing an NPL player in the mix as they are either just finishing up a tough season locally and are in need of rest or are in the off-season and have little match fitness.
Mileusnic is a classic example of what happens when a club throws an NPL player into a HAL training situation. He spend half last season injured.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:19 pm

Yeah i agree they may have quality depth, there will always be players who are happy to sit on the bench and collect a wage, but thats more likely to be a player close to or over 30.

A player like elsey who is approaching their prime knows they need to play as their future contracts depend on performance.

Poorer clubs can still create quality depth though.

Sure the “wunderkids” may be persuaded to leave a small club and sit on the bench of sfc for a season before going to europe.

However mid and smaller tier clubs will understand their limitations and concentrate rescources to youth and retaining / profiting from them.

Look at the talent ccm and adelaide have produced compared to sfc. If ccm and adelaide were able to retain these players longer there would be considerable depth.

Ultimately you can buy a race car or build one with similar parts and still compete in the same race and even win, Obviously building a car takes longer.


Its not a football issue, its an economic issue effecting football. Ala keynes vs hayek
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:36 pm

Yeah i agree they may have quality depth, there will always be players who are happy to sit on the bench and collect a wage, but thats more likely to be a player close to or over 30.

A player like elsey who is approaching their prime knows they need to play as their future contracts depend on performance.

Poorer clubs can still create quality depth though.

Sure the “wunderkids” may be persuaded to leave a small club and sit on the bench of sfc for a season before going to europe.

However mid and smaller tier clubs will understand their limitations and concentrate rescources to youth and retaining / profiting from them.

Look at the talent ccm and adelaide have produced compared to sfc. If ccm and adelaide were able to retain these players longer there would be considerable depth.

Ultimately you can buy a race car or build one with similar parts and still compete in the same race and even win, Obviously building a car takes longer.


Its not a football issue, its an economic issue effecting football. Ala keynes vs hayek
I disagree.
The Keynes model is a survival of the fittest and would ensure market dominance by the economically stronger team.
Also, IMO teams like AU and CCM would be even less able to hold on to promising youngsters, not more able.
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby shinAUFC Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:11 pm

Yeah i agree they may have quality depth, there will always be players who are happy to sit on the bench and collect a wage, but thats more likely to be a player close to or over 30.

A player like elsey who is approaching their prime knows they need to play as their future contracts depend on performance.

Poorer clubs can still create quality depth though.

Sure the “wunderkids” may be persuaded to leave a small club and sit on the bench of sfc for a season before going to europe.

However mid and smaller tier clubs will understand their limitations and concentrate rescources to youth and retaining / profiting from them.

Look at the talent ccm and adelaide have produced compared to sfc. If ccm and adelaide were able to retain these players longer there would be considerable depth.

Ultimately you can buy a race car or build one with similar parts and still compete in the same race and even win, Obviously building a car takes longer.


Its not a football issue, its an economic issue effecting football. Ala keynes vs hayek
I disagree.
The Keynes model is a survival of the fittest and would ensure market dominance by the economically stronger team.
Also, IMO teams like AU and CCM would be even less able to hold on to promising youngsters, not more able.
I totally agree clubs with a keynsian view abd cash would totally dominate the league IF the ratio of australian talent to professional aleague clubs was much smaller.

Plus for example, the gap between top aleague aussie midfielder to average midfielder in the same way that you would compare a barca midfielder to a deportivo mid is not that great at all.

So given there are more aleague quality players than there are opportunities in this country currently and the contrast in talent between an average and great aleague plauer is small it allows for smaller clubs with a bottom up approach to still be competitive and some years even win trophies.

I dont think we are having the same conversation about retaining youth at smaller clubs.

I conceded yes the wunderkids may go to a sfc for a year prior to europe, thats football.

However most will not elect to sit on the bench behind 2 seasoned highly paid professionals at the biggest club in the league unless they were likely to get considerable game time in a small 27 game league.

If they chose this path then clubs with a bottom up approach could atleast profit financially from the sale, at this stage we are forced to let them go for free.

Am i saying ccm can become the biggest club in the land without a salary cap? Absolutely not!

But allowing an open market will atleast ensure these clubs have a fighting chance and a real incentive to have a long term bottom up approach.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Who's signed for next season

Postby otto62 Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:37 am

But the difference between a wunderkind and a lesser young player is huge. So there's a big gap there. And I think you're understating the difference between a top A-league player and an average one. Troisi-O'Dougherty. Brillante-Konstandopoulos. Brosque-Blackwood.

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