Melbourne City

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shinAUFC
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby shinAUFC Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:37 am

So a $4 million investment and subsequent rule change by the sports governing body in a single player for a club who has an endless stream of cash could not even manage to break the 10k crowd figure for a knock out finals match in a purpose built football stadium .....

Money well spent? Has cahill actually grown the game in australia? I dont see it.

Imagine if this slush fund instead was used to keep younger players in aus playing regular football, call me crazy but the league is stronger with the likes of mauk, mabil ( purely from the au perspective ).

Ive found it hard to follow football this season , sure life and AUs poor performance has not in the way but the league turned into plastic joke in my oppinion resembling staged events like WWE rather than a competitive football league that is growing organically..
/endofrant
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Stuckey Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:43 pm

Its very debatable whether the Cahill experiment worked.
He was brought in to lure more people who are engaged by the Socceroos. But the cost was pissing off a great deal of existing HAL fans. For me it just reeks of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I think there are far better ways to spend that sort of money to benefit the HAL besides jeopardising the integrity of the HAL.
Building up fan favourites would work far better IMO. Encourage clubs to hold on to their local fan favourites (especially if they are in or around the Socceroos squad) someone like Maclaren for example. The FFA should be flogging the hell out of the fact a young Aussie has just won the golden boot. Surely he's done enough to warrant a Socceroos call up? If he does the FFA should be promoting the hell out of Maclaren and offering HAL clubs rules to enable them to hold on to the hottest Australian footballing talent.
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby EdDog Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:45 pm

Was Yoshi at the game last night?
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Interloper Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:43 pm

I don't see how anyone one can expect Melbourne City/CFG to have any more than a passing interest in their own success, let alone the health of the game in Australia.

The arrangement clearly only exists because it suits Manchester City to have a presence here to vacuum up Australian talent for them on the off chance a player of that standard appear here. And because they are backed by essentially infinite funds, they have the ability to act on those whims.
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby shinAUFC Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:33 pm

Its very debatable whether the Cahill experiment worked.
He was brought in to lure more people who are engaged by the Socceroos. But the cost was pissing off a great deal of existing HAL fans. For me it just reeks of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I think there are far better ways to spend that sort of money to benefit the HAL besides jeopardising the integrity of the HAL.
Building up fan favourites would work far better IMO. Encourage clubs to hold on to their local fan favourites (especially if they are in or around the Socceroos squad) someone like Maclaren for example. The FFA should be flogging the hell out of the fact a young Aussie has just won the golden boot. Surely he's done enough to warrant a Socceroos call up? If he does the FFA should be promoting the hell out of Maclaren and offering HAL clubs rules to enable them to hold on to the hottest Australian footballing talent.
I think your right Stuckey

No doubt there is value in the true marquee but why not market the hell out of guys like mclaren in order to convince the casual fan there is talent to be excited about in Australia.

Why not partner with a boot maker to design a shoe with the golden boot winner every season , obviously they are never going to be the jordans of the shoe world but it help create that excitement around our own player and belief
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby bpowell454 Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:50 pm

Sorenson and Colazo's contracts are up. They'll need to sign a keeper... wonder who that'll be...

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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Stuckey Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:31 pm

Its very debatable whether the Cahill experiment worked.
He was brought in to lure more people who are engaged by the Socceroos. But the cost was pissing off a great deal of existing HAL fans. For me it just reeks of robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I think there are far better ways to spend that sort of money to benefit the HAL besides jeopardising the integrity of the HAL.
Building up fan favourites would work far better IMO. Encourage clubs to hold on to their local fan favourites (especially if they are in or around the Socceroos squad) someone like Maclaren for example. The FFA should be flogging the hell out of the fact a young Aussie has just won the golden boot. Surely he's done enough to warrant a Socceroos call up? If he does the FFA should be promoting the hell out of Maclaren and offering HAL clubs rules to enable them to hold on to the hottest Australian footballing talent.
I think your right Stuckey

No doubt there is value in the true marquee but why not market the hell out of guys like mclaren in order to convince the casual fan there is talent to be excited about in Australia.

Why not partner with a boot maker to design a shoe with the golden boot winner every season , obviously they are never going to be the jordans of the shoe world but it help create that excitement around our own player and belief
Yeah that's a good idea. I'd love to see the FFA offer Brisbane the resources to keep Maclaren in the HAL over Cahill. Although the issue with the HAL is that with the season being so short. Players like Maclaren can be over looked for players in longer running leagues... like Kruse....
Time to Djbate!
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Interloper Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:16 am

The easiest way to keep MacLaren et al, in Australia is to scrap the marquee player rule and replace with a dramatically expanded salary cap (no cap is never going to happen in such a volatile market).

Keeping the 20-30 Australian players that are generally in low-quality, high-paying foreign leagues in Australia would surely be more productive than the occasional huge name. Thats enough talent to expand the league by one team and probably improve the average standard at the same time.
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Stuckey Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:34 am

The easiest way to keep MacLaren et al, in Australia is to scrap the marquee player rule and replace with a dramatically expanded salary cap (no cap is never going to happen in such a volatile market).

Keeping the 20-30 Australian players that are generally in low-quality, high-paying foreign leagues in Australia would surely be more productive than the occasional huge name. Thats enough talent to expand the league by one team and probably improve the average standard at the same time.
I agree that would be in a sense a very easy way to keep him here. But I don't think that would be good for the HAL generally. Eventually that rule change would only help the richest clubs and I wouldn't be surprised if interest in the HAL declines as fans grow tired of the 2-3 richest clubs battling it out each season. I agree the salary cap is a hindrance but I think scrapping it completely isn't the way to go.
Welcoming existing players back to the HAL that will add a decent boost to quality isn't going to dramatically increase interest from outside areas either I feel. Take someone like Robbie Kruse. He would probably be a boost to whoever he joins if he came back to the HAL. Would be boost crowds? Probably not.
I think building up the integrity of the HAL can be a slow and steady thing. Instead of scrapping the cap. Alter it, Have two marquees and every other player in the squad must be included in the cap. EXCEPT, any player that is "homegrown" meaning they have played an agreed amount of games with the club's youth set up (maybe 50 games). Any player that qualifies as a homegrown player is also exempt from the cap.
That way clubs are encouraged to develop players like Riley McGree and are also encouraged to hold on to them. If in a season or two Riley becomes a star of the HAL. AU aren't hamstrung by the cap to keep him. Then the ball in totally in the club's court to decide whether to sell on players like Riley or keep them to push for success.
I think by allowing HAL clubs to develop youth and hold on to them for a longer period will enable fans to get around players and let them become fan favourites this will add more to the HAL than welcoming fringe Socceroos like Holland back to the HAL. Plus letting promising players continue to develop at clubs they are already starting to do well at will add to the standard of the HAL as well.
Time to Djbate!
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Interloper Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:55 pm

The easiest way to keep MacLaren et al, in Australia is to scrap the marquee player rule and replace with a dramatically expanded salary cap (no cap is never going to happen in such a volatile market).

Keeping the 20-30 Australian players that are generally in low-quality, high-paying foreign leagues in Australia would surely be more productive than the occasional huge name. Thats enough talent to expand the league by one team and probably improve the average standard at the same time.
I agree that would be in a sense a very easy way to keep him here. But I don't think that would be good for the HAL generally. Eventually that rule change would only help the richest clubs and I wouldn't be surprised if interest in the HAL declines as fans grow tired of the 2-3 richest clubs battling it out each season. I agree the salary cap is a hindrance but I think scrapping it completely isn't the way to go.
Welcoming existing players back to the HAL that will add a decent boost to quality isn't going to dramatically increase interest from outside areas either I feel. Take someone like Robbie Kruse. He would probably be a boost to whoever he joins if he came back to the HAL. Would be boost crowds? Probably not.
I think building up the integrity of the HAL can be a slow and steady thing. Instead of scrapping the cap. Alter it, Have two marquees and every other player in the squad must be included in the cap. EXCEPT, any player that is "homegrown" meaning they have played an agreed amount of games with the club's youth set up (maybe 50 games). Any player that qualifies as a homegrown player is also exempt from the cap.
That way clubs are encouraged to develop players like Riley McGree and are also encouraged to hold on to them. If in a season or two Riley becomes a star of the HAL. AU aren't hamstrung by the cap to keep him. Then the ball in totally in the club's court to decide whether to sell on players like Riley or keep them to push for success.
I think by allowing HAL clubs to develop youth and hold on to them for a longer period will enable fans to get around players and let them become fan favourites this will add more to the HAL than welcoming fringe Socceroos like Holland back to the HAL. Plus letting promising players continue to develop at clubs they are already starting to do well at will add to the standard of the HAL as well.
I probably made my point poorly. I don't support scrapping the cap, I support making it larger and mostly scrapping exemptions like the marquees*. The A-League should calculate the median spend currently on marquees and add that much to the cap, extending financial assistance (to all clubs) if needed.

For pragmatic reasons I think this would make a much higher quality league, draw in way more fans in the long run and make expansion more practical. For integrity reasons I think it's important to re-establish a 'business as usual' approach to maintaining the A-League that has IMHO been lacking since all the way back to the FFA trying to weasel itself out of banning Danny Vukovic across the 2008 Olympic period.



*I think there should be a salary cap discount for youth players and moreso for current Australian internationals, youth and senior. Maybe one for long (7+ year) serving players at one club.
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shinAUFC
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby shinAUFC Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:44 pm

The easiest way to keep MacLaren et al, in Australia is to scrap the marquee player rule and replace with a dramatically expanded salary cap (no cap is never going to happen in such a volatile market).

Keeping the 20-30 Australian players that are generally in low-quality, high-paying foreign leagues in Australia would surely be more productive than the occasional huge name. Thats enough talent to expand the league by one team and probably improve the average standard at the same time.
I agree that would be in a sense a very easy way to keep him here. But I don't think that would be good for the HAL generally. Eventually that rule change would only help the richest clubs and I wouldn't be surprised if interest in the HAL declines as fans grow tired of the 2-3 richest clubs battling it out each season. I agree the salary cap is a hindrance but I think scrapping it completely isn't the way to go.
Welcoming existing players back to the HAL that will add a decent boost to quality isn't going to dramatically increase interest from outside areas either I feel. Take someone like Robbie Kruse. He would probably be a boost to whoever he joins if he came back to the HAL. Would be boost crowds? Probably not.
I think building up the integrity of the HAL can be a slow and steady thing. Instead of scrapping the cap. Alter it, Have two marquees and every other player in the squad must be included in the cap. EXCEPT, any player that is "homegrown" meaning they have played an agreed amount of games with the club's youth set up (maybe 50 games). Any player that qualifies as a homegrown player is also exempt from the cap.
That way clubs are encouraged to develop players like Riley McGree and are also encouraged to hold on to them. If in a season or two Riley becomes a star of the HAL. AU aren't hamstrung by the cap to keep him. Then the ball in totally in the club's court to decide whether to sell on players like Riley or keep them to push for success.
I think by allowing HAL clubs to develop youth and hold on to them for a longer period will enable fans to get around players and let them become fan favourites this will add more to the HAL than welcoming fringe Socceroos like Holland back to the HAL. Plus letting promising players continue to develop at clubs they are already starting to do well at will add to the standard of the HAL as well.
I probably made my point poorly. I don't support scrapping the cap, I support making it larger and mostly scrapping exemptions like the marquees*. The A-League should calculate the median spend currently on marquees and add that much to the cap, extending financial assistance (to all clubs) if needed.

For pragmatic reasons I think this would make a much higher quality league, draw in way more fans in the long run and make expansion more practical. For integrity reasons I think it's important to re-establish a 'business as usual' approach to maintaining the A-League that has IMHO been lacking since all the way back to the FFA trying to weasel itself out of banning Danny Vukovic across the 2008 Olympic period.



*I think there should be a salary cap discount for youth players and moreso for current Australian internationals, youth and senior. Maybe one for long (7+ year) serving players at one club.
Strongly agree with the last paragraph.

Expand the cap and keep the floor where it is, allow clubs who want big name players to do so. This would cause them to have a higher turnover of players. While other clubs can focus of development and actually bare the fruits of their labour by keeping unearthed visa players or youth products at their club for a much longer term via via exemptions and potential cash bonuses for special circumstances rather than watching them march off into the sunset for melb city or sfc.

I feel this is the only way the salary cap can serve the league while still remaining fair and allowing clubs to choose their own player investment strategies.

As it currently stands, there is very little incentive for aufc to invest in youth when we cant hold them longer than 6months after they break onto the scene.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby shinAUFC Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:47 pm

How about allowing clubs access to that 4million for a marquee if they have no more than 2 visa players?

Let the sfc's and city's of the league express themselves but give the rest of us some incentive and half a sniff at winning something.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Stuckey Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:37 am

The easiest way to keep MacLaren et al, in Australia is to scrap the marquee player rule and replace with a dramatically expanded salary cap (no cap is never going to happen in such a volatile market).

Keeping the 20-30 Australian players that are generally in low-quality, high-paying foreign leagues in Australia would surely be more productive than the occasional huge name. Thats enough talent to expand the league by one team and probably improve the average standard at the same time.
I agree that would be in a sense a very easy way to keep him here. But I don't think that would be good for the HAL generally. Eventually that rule change would only help the richest clubs and I wouldn't be surprised if interest in the HAL declines as fans grow tired of the 2-3 richest clubs battling it out each season. I agree the salary cap is a hindrance but I think scrapping it completely isn't the way to go.
Welcoming existing players back to the HAL that will add a decent boost to quality isn't going to dramatically increase interest from outside areas either I feel. Take someone like Robbie Kruse. He would probably be a boost to whoever he joins if he came back to the HAL. Would be boost crowds? Probably not.
I think building up the integrity of the HAL can be a slow and steady thing. Instead of scrapping the cap. Alter it, Have two marquees and every other player in the squad must be included in the cap. EXCEPT, any player that is "homegrown" meaning they have played an agreed amount of games with the club's youth set up (maybe 50 games). Any player that qualifies as a homegrown player is also exempt from the cap.
That way clubs are encouraged to develop players like Riley McGree and are also encouraged to hold on to them. If in a season or two Riley becomes a star of the HAL. AU aren't hamstrung by the cap to keep him. Then the ball in totally in the club's court to decide whether to sell on players like Riley or keep them to push for success.
I think by allowing HAL clubs to develop youth and hold on to them for a longer period will enable fans to get around players and let them become fan favourites this will add more to the HAL than welcoming fringe Socceroos like Holland back to the HAL. Plus letting promising players continue to develop at clubs they are already starting to do well at will add to the standard of the HAL as well.
I probably made my point poorly. I don't support scrapping the cap, I support making it larger and mostly scrapping exemptions like the marquees*. The A-League should calculate the median spend currently on marquees and add that much to the cap, extending financial assistance (to all clubs) if needed.

For pragmatic reasons I think this would make a much higher quality league, draw in way more fans in the long run and make expansion more practical. For integrity reasons I think it's important to re-establish a 'business as usual' approach to maintaining the A-League that has IMHO been lacking since all the way back to the FFA trying to weasel itself out of banning Danny Vukovic across the 2008 Olympic period.



*I think there should be a salary cap discount for youth players and moreso for current Australian internationals, youth and senior. Maybe one for long (7+ year) serving players at one club.
Yeah that makes sense. Although most of those cap concessions already exist.
The main issue with the cap is how clubs keep those players like Mauk and Burns. Who burst on to the scene and within a season or two are jetting off to Europe to sit on benches, play reserve games and/or get loaned around. Clubs need to be provided incentives for being able to hold on to the 19-22 year olds that are cutting it at HAL level. I think Mat Ryan is a wonderful example of what can be achieved with a player who is convinced to stay in the HAL for a season or two longer.
By enabling clubs salary cap freedom over their developed players the ball is totally in that club's court to hold on to a player or sell them on for a healthy fee.
Another aspect of the HAL that IMO needs altering is the no transfer fees rule as well as the capped fee on NPL clubs.
Allow clubs that focus on development to profit more from that so clubs like City and Syd FC with hugely wealthy foreigner owners have to actually put money into the local game.
Imagine the sort of boost a $250k transfer fee could offer an FFSA NPL club.
Time to Djbate!
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby Stuckey Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:40 pm

Image

Oh Ljubo, I've missed you!
Time to Djbate!
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Re: Melbourne City

Postby ozisnowman Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:26 pm

Adelaide United FC vs Melbourne Ex Adelaide Players FC

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