NSL and HAL records now combined.

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shinAUFC
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby shinAUFC Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:20 pm

Some nsl clubs could run much cheaper then the standard aleague club as many own their own stadiums.

There is probably no reason clubs with average crowds of 6-8k cant thrive in the league if they have their own boutique stadium and keep costs relatively low particularly with more money coming from the foxtel deal.

Surely the top tier npl clubs would be more viable then ccm and offer more to aus football then the nix
it's not the running costs that matters for a team it is the amount of subscribers a team can bring in. but in any case most clubs don't own their own facilities they are owned by council or state government and allowed to be used by community clubs for community purposes. the nix would be an asset for the league if there was foxtel in NZ whatever broadcaster there is over there isn't football friendly so they're ripping the FFA off hence the plan to dump them, if there was a genuine return on subscribers the nix generate there would be the nix plus a few more NZ teams to capitalise on their population.
I think you need to do a little more research on some of these ex nsl clubs. ( im not knocking u btw , just an observation)

Some are more stable finanacially then most aleague clubs, own their own stadium and social club and would probably average a higher crowd and more members then aufc.

Smfc s probably the most succesful club in the country yet not in the aleague. Im confident they would have a greater turn over then aufc in their first year
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby Stuckey Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:24 pm

Some nsl clubs could run much cheaper then the standard aleague club as many own their own stadiums.

There is probably no reason clubs with average crowds of 6-8k cant thrive in the league if they have their own boutique stadium and keep costs relatively low particularly with more money coming from the foxtel deal.

Surely the top tier npl clubs would be more viable then ccm and offer more to aus football then the nix
it's not the running costs that matters for a team it is the amount of subscribers a team can bring in. but in any case most clubs don't own their own facilities they are owned by council or state government and allowed to be used by community clubs for community purposes. the nix would be an asset for the league if there was foxtel in NZ whatever broadcaster there is over there isn't football friendly so they're ripping the FFA off hence the plan to dump them, if there was a genuine return on subscribers the nix generate there would be the nix plus a few more NZ teams to capitalise on their population.
It's all about income v expense. If the cost of using those local grounds is lower. Which I expect it would. The need to income is less desperate. Trying to build up a club with a stadium that holds 8k would be much easier than with a stadium that hold 40k+ like what Sydney and Brisbane have to deal with.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:25 pm

South Melbourne. I'd imagine an increase in clubs would mean an increase in money from fox as they would have more games to show and more earning potential from the league. The other clubs wouldn't accept another club in the league if it meant losing 10% of their income.
that is why it has not happened, the subscribers don't pay more for games they pay for their team hence a new team needs to have depth in their support to generate its own subscribers, FFA are desperate for new teams and will take whoever they can get they had to start WSW up themselves. there will never be any clubs with solely ethnic bases in australia because our immigration policy is to not accept large scale migration and most assimilate. even the brisbane strikers don't have the depth of support and were rejected for the brisbane roar because mainstream support barely creates enough subscribers to support one team professionally.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:28 pm

Some nsl clubs could run much cheaper then the standard aleague club as many own their own stadiums.

There is probably no reason clubs with average crowds of 6-8k cant thrive in the league if they have their own boutique stadium and keep costs relatively low particularly with more money coming from the foxtel deal.

Surely the top tier npl clubs would be more viable then ccm and offer more to aus football then the nix
it's not the running costs that matters for a team it is the amount of subscribers a team can bring in. but in any case most clubs don't own their own facilities they are owned by council or state government and allowed to be used by community clubs for community purposes. the nix would be an asset for the league if there was foxtel in NZ whatever broadcaster there is over there isn't football friendly so they're ripping the FFA off hence the plan to dump them, if there was a genuine return on subscribers the nix generate there would be the nix plus a few more NZ teams to capitalise on their population.
I think you need to do a little more research on some of these ex nsl clubs. ( im not knocking u btw , just an observation)

Some are more stable finanacially then most aleague clubs, own their own stadium and social club and would probably average a higher crowd and more members then aufc.

Smfc s probably the most succesful club in the country yet not in the aleague. Im confident they would have a greater turn over then aufc in their first year
i'm familiar with our state clubs not interstate or nsl, as i said its the TV revenue that is important not the low operating costs.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:29 pm

Some nsl clubs could run much cheaper then the standard aleague club as many own their own stadiums.

There is probably no reason clubs with average crowds of 6-8k cant thrive in the league if they have their own boutique stadium and keep costs relatively low particularly with more money coming from the foxtel deal.

Surely the top tier npl clubs would be more viable then ccm and offer more to aus football then the nix
it's not the running costs that matters for a team it is the amount of subscribers a team can bring in. but in any case most clubs don't own their own facilities they are owned by council or state government and allowed to be used by community clubs for community purposes. the nix would be an asset for the league if there was foxtel in NZ whatever broadcaster there is over there isn't football friendly so they're ripping the FFA off hence the plan to dump them, if there was a genuine return on subscribers the nix generate there would be the nix plus a few more NZ teams to capitalise on their population.
It's all about income v expense. If the cost of using those local grounds is lower. Which I expect it would. The need to income is less desperate. Trying to build up a club with a stadium that holds 8k would be much easier than with a stadium that hold 40k+ like what Sydney and Brisbane have to deal with.
as soon as you want to make a profit for private purposes the council or state government won't allow it. and a big part of that income is the TV revenue.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby Stuckey Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:33 pm

South Melbourne. I'd imagine an increase in clubs would mean an increase in money from fox as they would have more games to show and more earning potential from the league. The other clubs wouldn't accept another club in the league if it meant losing 10% of their income.
that is why it has not happened, the subscribers don't pay more for games they pay for their team hence a new team needs to have depth in their support to generate its own subscribers, FFA are desperate for new teams and will take whoever they can get they had to start WSW up themselves. there will never be any clubs with solely ethnic bases in australia because our immigration policy is to not accept large scale migration and most assimilate. even the brisbane strikers don't have the depth of support and were rejected for the brisbane roar because mainstream support barely creates enough subscribers to support one team professionally.
SMFC has that support. Their crowds at NPL level are excellent. It would be a no-brainer for the FFA to admit them. The only issue is that they are an ethnic club. The subscribers wouldn't be paying for them Fox would be. Obviously part of Fox's income is the subscriber's fee but I can't see them jacking up their subscription fee because there is one more game of HAL a week for 27 weeks. Especially considering they're losing the EPL rights.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:06 pm

npl crowds are a couple of hundred. already explained why the foxtel model needs depth of support to get subscribers (not based on increasing the amount games) and that subscriber revenue is pooled and then distributed evenly between the clubs, then you go and say that the subscribers wouldn't be paying foxtel would be and blame ethnicity for a lack of entry without acknowledging that a lack of depth of support results from that ethnicity.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby Stuckey Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:30 pm

npl crowds are a couple of hundred. already explained why the foxtel model needs depth of support to get subscribers (not based on increasing the amount games) and that subscriber revenue is pooled and then distributed evenly between the clubs, then you go and say that the subscribers wouldn't be paying foxtel would be and blame ethnicity for a lack of entry without acknowledging that a lack of depth of support results from that ethnicity.
I don't really understand what you are saying here?
Are you trying to have a conversation with me or pick out which things you think I'm incorrect on?
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:22 pm

i think this is just repeating the same thing, but you were blaming ethnicity not economic grounds for the nsl clubs absence in the league with no logic behind it. saying things like subscribers don't matter when actually subscribers are all that matters. for a team to be added to the league it would need to bring more subscribers than the lowest subscribing team in the a-league.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby Stuckey Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:57 pm

i think this is just repeating the same thing, but you were blaming ethnicity not economic grounds for the nsl clubs absence in the league with no logic behind it. saying things like subscribers don't matter when actually subscribers are all that matters. for a team to be added to the league it would need to bring more subscribers than the lowest subscribing team in the a-league.
I never said subscribers don't matter. Of course they matter. The reason ethnic clubs aren't included is due to the Crawford report drawing the conclusion that ethnic rivalries where a primary source of violence and crowd trouble in the NSL. So obviously any future league would want to avoid that.

As I said if you want to have a conversation I'm happy too.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:22 pm

You were playing down subscribers as only part of foxtel's income and saying foxtel would pay for the extra games not the subscribers, when in reality subscribers are all of foxtel's existence.

i don't know that report but that's nonsense if it actually said that, any league with security problems raises security it doesn't close down the entire league and start with new teams. the reason it was closed down was an attempt to pool together all the support for the game under broad teams to get enough subscribers to let the game go professional.

i'll leave it there cause we're probably going around in circles a bit.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby shinAUFC Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:49 pm

If you are not familiar with the crawford report, south Melbourne, sydney united etc and those clubs support in the community and financial clout then how can you comment if an NPL club is at all viable.

Stuckey is right that ethnicity was an issue in in these clubs making it to the aleague. South put in a bid that was reportedly much stronger the bid of melbourne heart but was shunned.

Im not sure u can blame a lack of support from these clubs fans when a crowd of 10k is not uncommon in the NPL for a special fixtures.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby ZANZIBAR Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:21 pm

Those 10k crowds turn up for special fixtures, in other words, ethnic rivalry games.
But the fact they have that many turn up is a great thing to see and i dont doubt they would turn up in large numbers for the a league, but it just comes with that huge risk of the small number of ultra types that would add more media pressure on an already overly scrutinized league. Ethnic violence headlines, warranted or not, could destroy our league...again. is it worth the risk of destroying the game or is the risk of new club identities with no real support from the start less problematic
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby Stuckey Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:46 pm

Those 10k crowds turn up for special fixtures, in other words, ethnic rivalry games.
But the fact they have that many turn up is a great thing to see and i dont doubt they would turn up in large numbers for the a league, but it just comes with that huge risk of the small number of ultra types that would add more media pressure on an already overly scrutinized league. Ethnic violence headlines, warranted or not, could destroy our league...again. is it worth the risk of destroying the game or is the risk of new club identities with no real support from the start less problematic
I don't think an isolated brawl in at a game would destroy the league. Obviously it would be terrible press. I think if the FFA could put the onus on the clubs coming in to take responsibility for the behaviour of their crowds. Obviously an isolated fight is unavoidable but its the poor crowds behaviour that can build up over time that would be the bigger concern.
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:25 pm

If you are not familiar with the crawford report, south Melbourne, sydney united etc and those clubs support in the community and financial clout then how can you comment if an NPL club is at all viable.

Stuckey is right that ethnicity was an issue in in these clubs making it to the aleague. South put in a bid that was reportedly much stronger the bid of melbourne heart but was shunned.

Im not sure u can blame a lack of support from these clubs fans when a crowd of 10k is not uncommon in the NPL for a special fixtures.
if a report is being used to say a competition was closed down due to security concerns i don't need to be reading it that's nonsense.

stuckey was completely wrong because he was making cases of why subscribers weren't that critical to fox and not recognising that any new team needs to have that community subscriber depth greater than the lowest current a-league team to be valuable.

and you're completely wrong in thinking that one off NPL crowds or a story you've heard that melbourne heart's bid was weaker (according to whom?) is indication of depth of support for subscribers, which is the key.

all this was pretty much already explained so it's just rehashing.

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