NSL and HAL records now combined.

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the 2nd james
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:33 pm

Those 10k crowds turn up for special fixtures, in other words, ethnic rivalry games.
But the fact they have that many turn up is a great thing to see and i dont doubt they would turn up in large numbers for the a league, but it just comes with that huge risk of the small number of ultra types that would add more media pressure on an already overly scrutinized league. Ethnic violence headlines, warranted or not, could destroy our league...again. is it worth the risk of destroying the game or is the risk of new club identities with no real support from the start less problematic
security isn't an issue there are plenty of scummy blokes after the match when play melbourne victory trying to get it on, it's just part of it that needs to be managed. media is overrated most of our supporters are over sensitive about it. nsl club supporters blame the media when really they hadn't created deep community support. most the ethnic clubs aren't a singular ethnicity any more, the issue is the support past the crowd support isn't there for foxtel subscribers.
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shinAUFC
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby shinAUFC Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:49 pm

If you are not familiar with the crawford report, south Melbourne, sydney united etc and those clubs support in the community and financial clout then how can you comment if an NPL club is at all viable.

Stuckey is right that ethnicity was an issue in in these clubs making it to the aleague. South put in a bid that was reportedly much stronger the bid of melbourne heart but was shunned.

Im not sure u can blame a lack of support from these clubs fans when a crowd of 10k is not uncommon in the NPL for a special fixtures.
if a report is being used to say a competition was closed down due to security concerns i don't need to be reading it that's nonsense.

stuckey was completely wrong because he was making cases of why subscribers weren't that critical to fox and not recognising that any new team needs to have that community subscriber depth greater than the lowest current a-league team to be valuable.

and you're completely wrong in thinking that one off NPL crowds or a story you've heard that melbourne heart's bid was weaker (according to whom?) is indication of depth of support for subscribers, which is the key.

all this was pretty much already explained so it's just rehashing.
If you thnk some of these clubs would not have higher Aleague crowds and membership then ccm if they were given a license then you are mistaken.

How can you be so "as a matter of fact" when you have absolutely no knowledge of how deep some of these clubs run in the community abd their level of support.

Also while foxtel needs subscribers it also needs content.

NCAA college basketball is not going to bring any new subscribers, 6 extra derbies would be music to foxtels ears and fantastic content thus more subscribers and easier for ffa to broker a better deal but hey .
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
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shinAUFC
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby shinAUFC Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:23 am

Those 10k crowds turn up for special fixtures, in other words, ethnic rivalry games.
But the fact they have that many turn up is a great thing to see and i dont doubt they would turn up in large numbers for the a league, but it just comes with that huge risk of the small number of ultra types that would add more media pressure on an already overly scrutinized league. Ethnic violence headlines, warranted or not, could destroy our league...again. is it worth the risk of destroying the game or is the risk of new club identities with no real support from the start less problematic
Some good points.

But a big game involving an old npl club does not mean its based on racial tension, generally the 2 ethnic clubs involved are very strong clubs and that is where 90% of the rivalry comes from.

Im neither for or against nsl clubs rejoining top flight. They have so much to offer yet as tou mention it does have its complexities.
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
the 2nd james
Proud Adelaide United Supporter
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:24 am

If you are not familiar with the crawford report, south Melbourne, sydney united etc and those clubs support in the community and financial clout then how can you comment if an NPL club is at all viable.

Stuckey is right that ethnicity was an issue in in these clubs making it to the aleague. South put in a bid that was reportedly much stronger the bid of melbourne heart but was shunned.

Im not sure u can blame a lack of support from these clubs fans when a crowd of 10k is not uncommon in the NPL for a special fixtures.
if a report is being used to say a competition was closed down due to security concerns i don't need to be reading it that's nonsense.

stuckey was completely wrong because he was making cases of why subscribers weren't that critical to fox and not recognising that any new team needs to have that community subscriber depth greater than the lowest current a-league team to be valuable.

and you're completely wrong in thinking that one off NPL crowds or a story you've heard that melbourne heart's bid was weaker (according to whom?) is indication of depth of support for subscribers, which is the key.

all this was pretty much already explained so it's just rehashing.
If you thnk some of these clubs would not have higher Aleague crowds and membership then ccm if they were given a license then you are mistaken.

How can you be so "as a matter of fact" when you have absolutely no knowledge of how deep some of these clubs run in the community abd their level of support.

Also while foxtel needs subscribers it also needs content.

NCAA college basketball is not going to bring any new subscribers, 6 extra derbies would be music to foxtels ears and fantastic content thus more subscribers and easier for ffa to broker a better deal but hey .
we do have knowledge the nsl was it and it's not very deep. we also know that the difference in crowds between the clubs who participated in both the nsl and a-league isn't boosted but reduced so the crowds and depth will be even smaller today.

content is nonsense as stuckey pointed out fox aren't going to up their fees for more content for existing subscribers they are going to want more subscribers.

if new teams creating six derbies don't have extra subscribers it means the existing a-league clubs get less money with more mouths to feed.
the 2nd james
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:37 am

Those 10k crowds turn up for special fixtures, in other words, ethnic rivalry games.
But the fact they have that many turn up is a great thing to see and i dont doubt they would turn up in large numbers for the a league, but it just comes with that huge risk of the small number of ultra types that would add more media pressure on an already overly scrutinized league. Ethnic violence headlines, warranted or not, could destroy our league...again. is it worth the risk of destroying the game or is the risk of new club identities with no real support from the start less problematic
Some good points.

But a big game involving an old npl club does not mean its based on racial tension, generally the 2 ethnic clubs involved are very strong clubs and that is where 90% of the rivalry comes from.

Im neither for or against nsl clubs rejoining top flight. They have so much to offer yet as tou mention it does have its complexities.
this also isn't true, where do you come up with this stuff, a strong part of the identity of these clubs is celebrating their ethnicity that is why their depth is shallow but it resonates with the supporter base, you'd need to have rose glasses on to believe that club identity doesn't play a role in rivalries, it's the single most important factor.
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shinAUFC
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby shinAUFC Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:30 am

im not sure you have properly read a single post anyone else has made.
i'm familiar with our state clubs not interstate or ns
Then hiw can you comment on any club outside of adelaide and make sweeping assumptions about subscriber depth?
subscribers don't pay more for games they pay for their team hence a new team needs to have depth in their support to generate its own subscribers,
One of the contentious issues in the last negotiations with Foxtel was the lack of games, mire games equal more content which means ffa can bargain a better price when its time to negotiate. But lets forget that.

Do you think smfc would have less subscriber depth then perth glory wellington or central coast managers? Im not sure you can have an oppinion on that because tou have no knowledge if clubs outside adelaide.
you go and say that the subscribers wouldn't be paying foxtel would be and blame ethnicity for a lack of entry without acknowledging that a lack of depth of support results from that ethnicity.
Where does this lack of support idea come from? You can completly disregard the crawford report but it was the single biggest investigation into australian football and its findings were used to create the aleague.
don't know that report but that's nonsense if it actually said tha
Read above

while i respect your oppinion, your attitude that anything that you are not aware of never happened or is not important is the single biggest issue we have in our game when it comes to previous administrators.

ill hop in the same boat as stuckey i think, if you want to have a conversation great!
Ppl who slap the label of truth on the 1st thing they hear, do it out of ignorance, convenience or cant be bothered picking through a thin layer of falsehood to find the real truth, or possibly even another lie
The voice in our head is the final judge
the 2nd james
Proud Adelaide United Supporter
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:07 pm

you didn't reply to the post and went back and dug stuff up from other posts, making the same points that you did to the post that i replied to, every single one of those points is wrong, so i'm not really sure how to answer again without dragging it out. i'll just go back to the main one and say that we know the level of depth from the nsl it's not great and you making excuses other than subscribers for foxtel revenue isn't a strong point, the only other way they would make more money from 'content' is by dramatically increasing what they charge existing foxtel a-league customers, they do not have enough viewers to generate anything significant from advertising. i'll leave it at that too because otherwise it just goes around in circles.
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ganas
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby ganas Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:14 pm

i think the points raised about subscribers is invalid. football fans that don't watch the a-league still have foxtel as they subscribe to watch the european leagues
the 2nd james
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Re: NSL and HAL records now combined.

Postby the 2nd james Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:25 pm

i think the points raised about subscribers is invalid. football fans that don't watch the a-league still have foxtel as they subscribe to watch the european leagues
so you think foxtel donates the money to the a-league out of goodwill?

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